Golden Reef - Cash in request refunded, struggling to get an explanation.

[Droid8]

Hi all,

[Not sure if this is in the right section, I presume it will be moved if it is not. New to online casinos, forums, etc]

I opened an account at Golden Reef Casino and recieved 100% bonus on my initial 100 deposit. I wagered through some on French Roulette, probably about 2000 worth give or take.

I ended up on 513 including the bonus. I then withdrew my cash balance (423) as I was happy with my winnings. In the T&Cs (unless I've missed something vital) it says "A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time".

However this 423 has been returned to my account since and the bonus has gone. The terms state "A player may view their bonus balance, cash balance and play through requirements by visiting the Bank and selecting Withdrawal". So I went and checked and again it says I am free to withdraw my cash balance, as it said before I initiated my withdrawal.

The terms also state "If a withdrawal is refunded due to the Player not meeting the play-through requirements, then any Welcome Bonus that was removed at the time of the withdrawal will be refunded to the Player account". This has not happened so I can only assume that, as stated in the terms and on the withdrawal page, there are no wager requirements on the cash balance and it is withdrawable at anythime .

I have e-mailed the CS a couple of times and had one response that said simply, your cash in was processed 6th July.

Am I missing something vital??? I am of reasonable intelligence (but not immune from making mistakes) and I have studied the T&Cs but can't see what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me Please???

Thanks in advance .
A.A.

 

[Macgyver]

I opened an account at Golden Reef Casino and recieved 100% bonus on my initial £100 deposit. I wagered through some on French Roulette, probably about £2000 worth give or take.

Am I missing something vital??? I am of reasonable intelligence (but not immune from making mistakes) and I have studied the T&Cs but can't see what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me Please???

Well, I looked at their T&C and did you see this part of it?

Bonus amounts credited to a Player's bonus balance are subject to 50 times play through before they may be cashed in.

50x your bonus of £100 = £5000.

If all you wagered was £2000 on roulette, I can see why they returned your withdrawal to you.

 

[Droid8]

Hi Macgyver,

Thanks for your response.

I did see that point in the T&Cs. But that further illustrates my point (I think). I did not try and withdraw my Bonus Balance which your quote relates to, just my Cash Balance. In addition, would it not make the statement " A players cash balance may be cashed in at anytime" completely defunct if it were to mean what you say???

The two balances although combined on the casino interface are dealt with in the T&Cs as seperate entities.

Again, I think this quote further compounds my point:

"If a Player makes a withdrawal, their bonus balance is reset to zero. This means that if a Player chooses to take back the money they deposited, they will lose any bonus money they may still have remaining in their Bonus balance."

If you have to fulfil all wagering requirements on your bonus balance before you can cash in your cash balance or your bonus balance, what would be the point in including the above statement. It would be irrelevant.

Can anyone see my point??

Thanks.
A.A.

 

[ergopro]

You should be able to withdraw your cash balance at any time...strange...
By doing that before meeting the WR the bonus should be removed from your account and the withdrawal of the cash balance processed normally...

 

[Droid8]

That's exactly what I thought should happen, but it has not.

What can I do about this issue, does anyone have any suggestions??

Thanks.
A.A.

 

[ergopro]

Well, here might be the reason...taken straight from their promotions page...
"Players who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved. Please refer to the Terms and Conditions for more details. "

 

[Droid8]

Right, possibly. But then it refers you to the T&Cs page. Once you go and look at that, it's back to my original point. "cash balance can be withdrawn at any time". It's all very confusing and very un concise. A number of the points just contradict one another. Surely a big organisation such as a microgaming online casino should have clear concise terms and conditions???? It's not that difficult is it???

AA

 

[Dirk Diggler]

This group basically try anything possible to not payout when there's ever been a bonus involved on the account.

By their terms they should either pay the cash balance, or return the bonus amount so you can fullfill the reuired wagering to convert it into cash.

I can't believe they've returned the cash balance but not the bonus balance, just typical of these lot.

I used to be a Platinum VIP here, but they constantly reversed my withdrawals claiming I needed to complete wagering on bonuses I'd lost months ago.

I thought the introduction of the new MG bonus system was supposed to stop all this crap, but not with this group it hasn't.

 

[Droid8]

Ah right,

Thanks Dirk,

It doens't sound good though . I thought they were really reputable, as I noted they were in the recomended casinos on the meister site.

What are my options then???

I have contacted the C/S but they haven't given me a response. If I have to continue wagering, contrary to their T&Cs, then surely they must award me my bonus back. Otherwise it just seems like a con to me, having to meet a wager requirement without a bonus.

Any more help/suggestions greatly recieved.

A.A.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

If you can't get anywhere with them then your next step would be lodge a dispute with ecogra:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[silcnlayc]

Can anyone see my point??

Nope...

I am going to play devils advocate here for I feel this is just a plain silly question especially with all the ENDLESS horror bonus postings.

No offense meant to anyone, it just drives me crazy these postings when all in all, anyone with COMMON sense knows that a casino will not allow you to withdraw ANY FUNDS until you have met the WR if you took a bonus, regardless of whether or not the wording is not as you like after the INITIAL warning of bonus T&C's...and especially when it is posted UP FRONT such as this:

"Players who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved.

Why would ANY casino allow you to withdraw ANYTHING if you haven't met the T&C's and WR, when you have had the enjoyment of playing with THIER money?

Alarm bells should have gone off BEFORE you deposited, with just this one condition, but yet, you go and deposit and play anyway, hoping the vagueness of the remainder of T&C's will be your out.

Using a little common sense when taking bonuses should always be foremost in your actions...if it states there are wagering requirements, then that is just what it is...period.....WR are standard for ALL deposit match bonuses..regardless of any T&C's hidden in the language that is not clear...everyone that uses bonuses knows this...

 

[kiolka]

the whole point of the ez bonus was that a player was supposed to be able to play any game they wanted (weighted accordingly), and be able to cash out any deposit + winnings at anytime (and forfeit the bonus).
That is what is written in the t+c's.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

the whole point of the ez bonus was that a player was supposed to be able to play any game they wanted (weighted accordingly), and be able to cash out any deposit + winnings at anytime (and forfeit the bonus).
That is what is written in the t+c's.

Totally agree with that.

Silcynlayc - that maybe was the case, but now every MG (apart from possibly this group) allow withdrawals of your cash balance whenever. You just lose any bonus money.

 

[Droid8]

Hi Silcnlayc,

I take on board your point now you have made it to me. However you are obviously an experienced on line gambler, I am not. I thoroughly read the terms and conditons on this casino and many other casinos before I deposited at any of them. This included those relating to bonuses and promotions.

I thought the terms on this one were the most favourable for me and that I had understood them, so I deposited. With out prior knowledge of these types of terms and conditions, what else have I to go on other than that which is in front of me? I'll also add to this that I read corporate law at university, so I have a reasonable understanding of legally binding documents.

"A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time". That seems very clear to me!!!! In fact I don't think it could be put clearer! What you have stated relies on prior knowledge of this issue. This I admittedly lack.

"Player’s who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved"

Fair point, which I took on board - BUT only the BONUS money has any wager requirement on it. If I am mistaken, just show me where in the terms and conditions it says otherwise and I'll totally understand your point.

As for the horror stories you speak of I haven't read these, but will endevour to so now this has happened to me. It can't however, be assumed that the end user will have any prior knowledge, of anything at all on the subject, except what is written in the T&Cs.

I will have to write to the affiliate manager who I've since discovered is a member of this forum and will also lodge a complaint at ecogra.

Dirk Diggler and Kiolka, I feel more confident I am right now with what you have added here. Silcnlayc, please do not take anything I have written personally, it was not intended that way. Thank you all for your time on the matter.

Regards,
Droid8

 

[wobble33]

guys

there is another problem here with micro gaming (viper) ez or clear play bonus accounts where i dont think ANYONE has latched onto yet! now then, say you get £100 bonus for £100 deposit, the wagering requirements are x30 bonus only so £3000 to wager. you go on spring break (this is a 100% game allowed for wagering and just an example). you have done lets say £2500.00 wagering, and have just £500 left to wager. you get the bonus round and hit a £250.00 win. you say right here, if i double this, i have finished this wagering, and now i can cash out. only to find out when you go into cashier the £250.00 double up gamble hasnt counted!) . BUT IF YOU LOOK IN PLAYCHECK, YOU WILL SEE ITS STILL SAYING YOU HAVE WAGERED £500 ON THAT SPIN . now then, if you look in the terms and conditions, there is no mention of doubling up on ANY game doesnt count to clear bonus (except at casino action), they have a line in the terms saying something about doubling up. i found this out to my cost at 1 casino the other day, but i still managed to complete the wagering . so really this is a very sly trick off microgaming and the new bonus accounts. i think they want to rewrite there terms very carefully! and also if these microgaming casinos dont get their terms and conditions put right, bryan (cm) is going to be a very busy man.

 

[chuchu59]

When EZ just aint that easy

At first glance, I thought that the player must be wrong since he hadnt met the full WRs. However, when I read the Ts and Cs at Golden reef, I began to think differently. There are supposed to be 2 separate accounts, one a cash balance account and the other a bonus account. You can only use your bonus balance when you have emptied your cash account. In addition, the bonus cannot be withdrawn but funds can be transferred to the cash balance as a result of meeting playthrough requirements. Does this not mean that any bonus remaining in the bonus account is uncashable while the bonus transferred has in itself met the playthrough and together with the remaining cash balance, can be withdrawn at any time. Why should there be playthrough requirements for bonuses transferred to the cash account and another set of WRs for the total bonus itself? Seems conflicting to me.

I believe that the EZ Bonus system was designed to ensure that bonuses are not that easily abused. The player would have to deplete his whole cash balance to be able to use the bonus for wagering and even then the funds transferred from the bonus itself would have to meet playthrough and sent to the cash balnce account in increments. Once a withdrawal is initiated, the bonus balance will be reset to zero. I cannot honestly see how this can be viewed as 'bonus abuse' if that is what Golden Reef is thinking of.

 

[Mousey]

Droid8 ....

Have you tried to contact the casino rep here on the forum? At the top of this page where you are now, you will see a link for Casino Contacts. ... https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/groups/
When you get there, scroll down just a wee bit and look for "Casino Action". PM the rep with pertinent details, and perhaps they can at least find out what's up with your account.

P.S. ... Do I have the right casino group in mind, everyone? If not, please correct me. There have been so many changes it makes my brain ache to try and keep up with which casino went where....

 

[Droid8]

Hi,

Yes I have contacted the casino action rep on this forum. He responded straight away and told me he had forwarded the details on to the Golden Reef manager and that I would get a response. I'll wait for that response until after the weekend and then put in a complaint to ecogra if I don't hear anything.

Thanks again to everyone adding to this thread.

D8

 

[KasinoKing]

I think the casino is wrong & the player is right.
You should be able to withdraw your cash, as clearly stated in the T&C's.

If the rep does not sort the problem then Pitch a Bitch with Bryan.

Whatever you do, DO NOT play any more at this casino until this is resolved.
(Sorry to state the obvious! )

 

[Droid8]

Oh dear, too late for that.

I wanted a gamble yesterday and played a few slots.

Is this likely to cause me a lot of trouble???

Like I've said I am completely new to all this.

Cheers for the heads up on that though.

D8

 

[paul02085]

I think if any thread is started about a problem with a bonus there should be an automatic post by silc about why bonuses suck

 

[Macgyver]

Only if I (or KasinoKing) get an automatic post in response about why bonuses don't suck.

 

[silcnlayc]

I think if any thread is started about a problem with a bonus there should be an automatic post by silc about why bonuses suck

Yup , yup!

Only if I (or KasinoKing) get an automatic post in response about why bonuses don't suck.

Hmmm...tuff one, need to ponder this for a few moments...hang on........, ok, I think thats fair...

and this is why I think bonuses suck.....Now if I had taken a bonus with my little deposit of $50 when I hit this ( first 3 spins) ...I woulda been broke trying to reach the WR instead of cashing out my $600 within minutes (thank you 32RED!) of playing, and redepositing my initial $50, for more fun, and a nice stash for play elsewhere, hence...bonuses suck IMHO...

 

[Droid8]

Hi all.

This is the response the rep off the cm forum sent me:


"It has been bought to my attention that you have an issue with regards to the Term and Conditions outlining when you can make a withdrawal. Firstly please let me thank you for your thoughts regarding this. We have reviewed them and have updated them so they may not be seen as confusing.

However, the terms do state that you must meet the full wagering requirements before a withdrawal is to be approved. I realise that it also said that you can cashin at anytime but the terms and conditions should be complied with in full and not with just based on one point. Although you can make a withdrawal at anytime you still do need to meet the full wagering requirements for it to be approved.

I can understand why you might see this as confusing however this is a personal interpretation and not one shared by all. That being the case we have updated them and would like to give you a bonus (with no wagering requirements attached) as a measure of thanks. If you would like to accept this bonus then please just reply to this email stating such.

We have also placed the $70 bonus amount that was removed at the time of withdrawal for you to continue playing with. Once full wagering requirements have been met then your cashin will be approved. please note though that we will require you also to please provide identification"

As there are a lot of poeple with a whole lot more experience of these issues on the forum, I'd like to get opinions on whether this is a fair solution. I personally feel it is NOT, but a willing to go with it if the majority think it is. Otherwise I will try and P.A.B. to the casinomeister. The reason I am posting this and asking peoples opinions is so I don't waste the casinomeisters time.

Regards
D8.

 

[Pinababy69]

Although you can make a withdrawal at anytime you still do need to meet the full wagering requirements for it to be approved.

Okay, someone tell me that they are as confused as I am by that line? That makes absolutely zero sense to me. You can withdraw anytime, but it won't be approved unless you have met the WR in full? So why bother to withdraw then? Doesn't this nullify the whole basis of this new bonus system? That you can withdraw at any time, but in doing so, you forfeit any remaining bonus if WR have not been met?

I'm gonna go get someone to blow in my ear and give me a refill, cause I'm lost.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

As long as they've returned the bonus that was forfeited as the time of the withdrawal then they have complied with their T&Cs.

It is a fair solution IMO.

 

[silcnlayc]

However, the terms do state that you must meet the full wagering requirements before a withdrawal is to be approved. I realise that it also said that you can cashin at anytime but the terms and conditions should be complied with in full and not with just based on one point.

It does state that you must meet requirements before cashing out under the EZ Bonus terms for it directs you back and states please read the General T&C's for ANY bonus before the EZ bonus comes into play. I did a lot of seaching and this exactly what I came up with when reading all the T&C's. When you pick and choose the terms you want to understand, rely on and want implemented , it works to the players benefit, but when taken in the whole, it states exactly what the casino has said. Terms and conditions MUST be met, which I stated earlier and was told in no uncertain terms that :

However you are obviously an experienced on line gambler, I am not.

Which I found amusing..


In my opinion, they have been more than kind in allowing you to continue to play and even more generous in giving you back the bonus money when you broke the T&C's and it was your misunderstanding.

It is a fair solution IMO.

I agree.

 

[bossplayer]

what crap

EZ was invented for a reason, this is NOT it.

They are giving you a bonus with no wagering requirement.... this is a falsehood unless they waited for you to finish the wagering on the original bonus. Only then would you not have to risk that money with further wagering due to your signup bonus still being in the mix.

Ask them to send your no wagering requirement bonus to your neteller account in your email.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

In my opinion, they have been more than kind in allowing you to continue to play and even more generous in giving you back the bonus money when you broke the T&C's and it was your misunderstanding. I agree.

Sorry but that's nonsense - the terms clearly stated that if a player made a withdrawal prior to meeting the WR then the withdrawn amount AND forfeited bonus would be returned to the account.

They had no right whatsoever to keep the bonus yet force the player to fullfill the wagering for it. One or the other, not both.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I believe player is entitled to misunderstanding

I, an experienced player, understood the new EZBonus to allow withdrawal at any time with forfeiture of any unearned bonus. Since the bonus system here is advertised as this same Microgaming system, why is it different here?
I just played at Ruby Fortune under the very same system, and sacrificed the remnant #20 bonus by withdrawing - I was paid without quibble.

If Golden Reef are altering the Microgaming system (I thought operators were not able to tweak MG software?!), they should make this very clear at the top of the terms.
Casino Action have been criticised by me in the past for failing to keep websites up to date, and not even correcting this when informed of the problem. The worst cases were last year when they changed the rules almost monthly, and at one time had 3 DIFFERENT sets of complete rules for the old bonus account up at the same time, but in different areas of the website.
On the withdrawal page, there should be a link to the terms of the new bonus account system, if this does not say that all WR must be completed before withdrawal, and that the bonus sacrifice option does not apply to this group, they should honour the cash-in under the bog-standard Microgaming implementation of EZBonus, and then update the terms for their special exceptions.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Dog's Dinner

I have just checked this on my own account. The withdrawal page says that you can withdraw the cash balance at any time, and lose the bonus. The link has confusing terms. While it states that the playthrough requirement must be met, in other places it states that the player can withdraw their cash balance at any time and lose the bonus.

I also have seen the 50X - this is a joke, 30x brought criticism when this was the Microgaming standard, but this 50x is a complete joke, being almost double the norm for other MG casinos. This 50x is SLOTS!!! all other games have far worse WR, up to 500x for Blackjack and 2500x for Classic Blackjack - despite this, they worry about "Bonus Abuse".

Well, I have been "eating out of their hand" since lulled into a state of pleasure by the Berlin trip, but having just found out what the "other hand" has been up to with EZBonus, I have just bitten it off

(I could easily have walked straight into this EZBonus trap myself!)

It is NOT the standard EZBonus - they have messed with it!!
Another term also states that new accounts may have their bet limits reduced, so - all that "crap" from other MG casinos that claim they cannot use bet limits down to the level of specific accounts to prevent abuse of bonuses by new players, or that the EZBonus is "standard" and can't be changed for different levels of player or games - you are not trying hard enough!

 

[tombomb]

I had the exact same problem

Totally agree with that.

Silcynlayc - that maybe was the case, but now every MG (apart from possibly this group) allow withdrawals of your cash balance whenever. You just lose any bonus money.

They reversed my withdrawal after I zeroed out on the bonus,made another deposit ran it up to $1500 and tried to cash out.I went round and round on "live chat" with the CS rep about "your cash balance may be cashed out at anytime".It seems their policy is to reverse withdrawals hoping youll lose it.Also it takes 5 - 15 minutes between responses on live chat.They f**ked me around for 2 1/2 hrs.Then they authorized the withdrawal and i got it two days later.took my $1300 profit and closed the account.I wont play there again.I advise others to do the same.

 

[Mousey]

We can withdraw when the EZBonus software lets us, but it will be returned for completing their crazy WR? Ummm... I hate to tell them, that is NOT the way the EZBonus system works. They've perverted it -- big time. Is there a rep on board so we can all let him/her know that we're abandoning ship?

I don't play at Golden Reef, but I may have some of the other casinos in this sadistic (50x WR on slots?!?!) group installed. (You know I was going to ask this)... Please list the casinos in this group. I'm in an uninstalling mood.

 

[lydia]

other casinos in this sadistic (50x WR on slots?!?!) group installed.

I'm in an uninstalling mood.

 

[Macgyver]

I don't play at Golden Reef, but I may have some of the other casinos in this sadistic (50x WR on slots?!?!) group installed. (You know I was going to ask this)... Please list the casinos in this group. I'm in an uninstalling mood.

My records show that Golden Reef operates through the Casino Profit Share program. Other casinos listed through that same program are:

Challenge
Music Hall
Nostalgia
UK Casino Club

Again, I may be a little off here because my records concern bonus offers much more than owners.

 

[Mousey]

Looking at the contact list (I finally found the group) it appears that this is a Casino Action casino. Which includes: Aztec Riches Casino, Challenge Casino, Golden Reef Casino, Music Hall Casino, UK Casino Club, Aztec Riches Poker, Poker Metro. Luckily, I do not have any of these casinos installed.

Good luck all.

 

[Droid8]

Well, after a lot of e-mails to the Golden Reef C/S, I never recieved one response back. It could be my e-mail, but I seem to get messages to everyone else fine. I made sure I had the correct address and even copied it from a private message the rep on the forum sent me. Who knows?!?!?!

They offered me 50 with no wager requirement but obviously it does have a wager requirement on it, as does all the bonus and cash balance in my account.

I accepted the offer, as I didn't have the patience to keep slogging it out with the rep off the CM forum and I need to get my money back so I can play elsewhere. I certainly won't be playing here or at the other casinos in the group in the future.

Thanks to all those who posted and gave advice.

D8

 

[Stanford]

Welcome to the Hotel California

Okay, someone tell me that they are as confused as I am by that line? That makes absolutely zero sense to me. You can withdraw anytime, but it won't be approved unless you have met the WR in full? So why bother to withdraw then? Doesn't this nullify the whole basis of this new bonus system?

They should adopt "Hotel California" as a them song... "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Stanford

 

[Mousey]

Droid8,

I'm so sorry you never got another reply from the casino or their rep. Their catch-22 T&C are not clear and, in my mind, deliberately sneaky to make them appear to use the usual EZPay bonus system when they do not. If money shows as withdrawable in this new ez pay software, then it should be withdrawable!

I do wish you had Pitched a Bitch, though I know it really gets tiresome doing all this wrangling for your money.

"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Cute, Sanford!

 

[chuchu59]

They should adopt "Hotel California" as a them song... "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Stanford

Hi Stanford,

Havent heard from you for a long time. How are things going at the moment?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm watching.

I'm watching this with interest.

I have been upgraded to Platinum Elite, and we have been invited to Las Vegas in September, which means I get to give Vinoka a piece of my mind IN PERSON!

I will be mentioning this EZBonus issue and the 50x WR. I will also ask why, yet again, a Platinum player finds out about these nasties in the casinomeister forum and not by newsletter or casino mail from the casino.

It might be worth seeing if Neteller Instant payment is blocked by this audit rule, or whether it can bypass their policy of refunding despite clearance from EZBonus.

I doubt I would get this run-around as a Platinum Player (but I could be wrong!), maybe they are being unduly harsh on new sign-ups. Previously, when I have had EZBonus pass a cash-in and had it rejected at audit (audit in Instant Payments), they simply asked me to reverse it ,and they manually cleared the WR so it could be cashed out through Instant Payments.

Having read the terms, they are confusing. It is not at all clear which of the terms is the one to be obeyed, both "you can cash out at any time... and bonus balance is set to zero", and "..will only be approved if the full WR has been met", can't both be true at face value.

If there is a difference between how the sign-up bonus is treated from normal loyalty bonuses there is no mention of this. Seems to me that Platinum Elite players have to wager the bonus 50x on slots, where VIP players at the recently disgraced Jackpot Factory have to wager their bonus a mere 15x, AND can use the option to sacrifice unearned bonus.

 

[Droid8]

Hi all,

Following on from my last post, I finished the wager requirement and finished up to the tune of an extra 150. I do feel that was a little bit of justice to be quite honest. I have requested my cash out and we shall see what happens from here. Surely it must be authorised this time?!?!?!?

I hear what you're saying mousey, maybe I should have pitched a bitch. I was starting to think though, after they refunded my bonus and I posted so on here, that the consensus was that it was a fair solution, though maybe overall people didn't think that and I should have waited a little longer for responses.

Anyway at least I was lucky, but I certainly won't be re-depositing there again.

D8

Vinylweatherman : Who is Vionka??? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie!!!

 

[Stanford]

Hi Chuchu

Hi Stanford,

Havent heard from you for a long time. How are things going at the moment?

Things are going well. I see some things have not changed in my absense. Golden Reef has been delaying payouts for as long as I can remember.

Hopefully, they are not on anyone's recommended list.

Hope things are going well for you.

Stanford

 

[vinylweatherman]

Vinoka

Hi all,

Following on from my last post, I finished the wager requirement and finished up to the tune of an extra 150. I do feel that was a little bit of justice to be quite honest. I have requested my cash out and we shall see what happens from here. Surely it must be authorised this time?!?!?!?

I hear what you're saying mousey, maybe I should have pitched a bitch. I was starting to think though, after they refunded my bonus and I posted so on here, that the consensus was that it was a fair solution, though maybe overall people didn't think that and I should have waited a little longer for responses.

Anyway at least I was lucky, but I certainly won't be re-depositing there again.

D8

Vinylweatherman : Who is Vionka??? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie!!!

Vinoka is the VIP services manager, a rung or two above the general CS. I have been corresponding with Vinoka for a while, on subjects as diverse as the World Cup to botched promotions and buggy cash-out procedures.
The point I will be raising is about this EZBonus, players are supposed to be able to withdraw at any time, and any remaining bonus will be deducted, or they can play on and win the entire amount. Other MG casinos use it the way MG intended, which was to do away with arguments about WR and excluded games. Golden Reef seem to be advertising EZBonus, but are not implementing it the way that was intended. It seems the software is working as intended by MG, and they have to manually bodge it to prevent a withdrawal at approval. I also want to know when 30x became 50x. It was 30x only a while ago when it was introduced, and is now 50x, but I don't remember seeing this announced, but many far less important things HAVE been announced to players by E-mail and/or message of the day.

I have worked out that even at 30x on slots, the bonus has a negative expected value, at 50x there is no chance. They have also savagely cut the prizes in the remaining tournaments (Munchkin Monday and Thursday Thunder), by half, and this prize must also be wagered 50x on slots.
There is virtually no value left in these casinos even for me as Platinum VIP, other than an annual visit to Vegas (provided they keep this up).
The only tournament that might still be worth playing are the likes of the World Cup draw, where entries are earned by depositing and wagering it through only once. With Neteller instant payments it is possible for a VIP to use the SAME $2500 or so in all 5 casinos each DAY for maximum entries (deposit, wager 1x for entries, withdraw by Neteller Instant, and move to next one).
The WR for a VIP at All Slots is a mere 15x in comparison, and Palace Group use the standard 30x and allow full rights to withdraw early and lose the remaining bonus.

 

[balo500]

Why is Goldnreef on Casinomeister accredited casino list?

With all these issues, why is goldenreef casino still on the accredited casino list? What is going on? This is kind of misleading.

Thanks.

 

[jerrylee]

I ended up on 513 including the bonus. I then withdrew my cash balance (423) as I was happy with my winnings.
However this 423 has been returned to my account since and the bonus has gone.

Haven't read the whole thread but before crying foul, notice that the cash out of 423 is not 513 - 100 bonus, but 10 more.
So I think the casino voided this withdrawal since WR not met and no part of bonus cashable.
If OP cashes out for 413, will it go through?

 

[aka23]

Haven't read the whole thread but before crying foul, notice that the cash out of £423 is not £513 - £100 bonus, but £10 more.
So I think the casino voided this withdrawal since WR not met and no part of bonus cashable.
If OP cashes out for £413, will it go through?

I haven't read through the whole thread either, but the Casino Profit Share / Casino Action group requires players to complete wagering requirements on bonuses, unlike standard Clearplays where winnings can be cashed out without meeting the playthrough. The player can forfeit the bonus prior to beginning playthrough by calling support.

Having bonuses that are automatically credited, must be played through, and have high wagering requirements is a poor system that is certain to lead to problems. They should either not credit the bonus automatically (for example have a form submission) or allow players to cash out winnings without meeting the playthrough.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Vinoka

Post Las Vegas,
Bit of a disaster, the hotel was undergoing refurbishment and the staff were worse than Casino Rewards CS on a bad day

Staff either knew nothing about the event, nor could they tell me which bar we were supposed to meet up at. They also seemed unable to count, they said only two bars existed, and I searched FOUR and still didn't find them! The Golf was lost due to staff not knowing where the "taxi rank" was, directing me instead to the opposite end of a half mile internal road (with a bend in it!).
Vinoka did NOT escape the "earful" though, as I was able to catch up with them on Saturday for the dinner and helicopter ride.

I was told that SOME changes were to be made.

1) A tweak to lower WR (possibly back to 30x), but I have not seen this yet.

2) Change to loyalty programme due to an exploit I mentioned, and demonstrated

3) Changes to tournaments (the prizes of the existing two have been increased).

4) Further competitions will be run following the World Cup and Car or Cash promotions. (No date yet available for the next one). No, I didn't win the car as well


The explanation for the tight WR was that they were hit very heavily by the "bonus whores" and introduced the rules as a deterrent to them opening accounts just for the initial bonus.


There is still this problem with the EZBonus, and their rules that all WR must be met to withdraw. Presumably this is to combat the technique of placing a big bet with D+B and cashing out upon winning. (This technique does work mathematically, and is a valid concern).

Another suggestion has been enacted, they now have a "meet the team" photo on the website, not up to 32Red level mind, but it's a start. Phone support is being introduced for VIP players. It is a case of a VIP requesting access, and they may be given the number. Hopefully, phone support will be more widely available as occasionally the E-mail and live chat system break down or clog up.