Accredited Casino "VIP Casinos"; Resolved

[gaming_mouse]

Hi,

I'm not sure if this belongs in a pitchabitch or here. Please let me know if I should submit this to Bryan, or if he will see it here. But I am having a nightmare experience with VIP Casinos that I thought a should share, especially since I have never had a problem with an accredited casino before.

The terms on their website are very clear about which games are excluded from playthru calculations. Each excluded game is listed separately in a list on this page:

Excluded Games

The last rep I talked to suggested that they may update that page, so in case they do here is:

Google's Cache of that page.

Note that while the game "Bonus Deuces Wild" is listed as an excluded game, the game "Deuces Wild" (definitely a different game) is not. Since I planned to play this game, I confirmed this fact with a CS rep. Here is here confirmation that "Deuces Wild" is indeed allowed:

Screenshot

The problems began when I went back to the chat to check on my wagering requirements. A new chat representative informed me that "Deuces Wild" did not count. She was about to dismiss my protests to the contrary altogether, until I mentioned casinomeister as a referral, and my screenshot of my previous chat session.

After a long delay, she spoke with a supervisor and they agreed that my previous wagering on Deuces Wild would count, but that no further wagering would. She claimed that it is stated on the website that "Deuces Wild" does not count, and ignored me when I pointed out that this was simply false.

I was shocked that an accredited casino would so blatantly disregard not only their own T&C, but also the promise of one of their own reps.

I'd appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Jonah

Here is the transcript of my Chat with the 2nd rep:

One of our Member Services staff will be with you in a moment
You are now chatting with Charlene
Charlene: Thanks for contacting us at VIP - how may I help you today?
TheIoanna: Hello Charlene
TheIoanna: I have been playing alot recently, but I have no idea how much I have wagered. Could you tell me?
Charlene: Hello, Jonah.
Charlene: Please hold on a moment, I will check your account.
Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
Charlene: Jonah, you have wagered $2,212.00 and still have to wager $9,788.00 to meet the rollover requirement.
Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
TheIoanna: No. That is impossible.
TheIoanna: I have wagered at least $5000 on Deuces Wild, which is an allowed game.
Charlene: I am sorry Jonah, Deuces Wild is also one of the excluded games.
Charlene: The games excluded from playthrough are: Baccarat
Charlene: Bingo
Charlene: BlackJack
Charlene: Craps
Charlene: MultiHand Video Poker
Charlene: Poker
Charlene: Roulette
Charlene: Video Poker
Charlene: War
TheIoanna: No, Charlene. It is not. I was told so by one of your reps over chat and have a screenshot of that. You should also check your own website. It is not listed there.
Charlene: This game actually is excluded, do you remember the name of the clerk that informed you that it wasn't?
TheIoanna: Hold on I will look at the screenshot.
TheIoanna: Idris
TheIoanna: You should also look here:
TheIoanna: http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm
Charlene: If you look at our website it is also stated that this game is excluded. Please visit http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm.
TheIoanna: You will notice that Deuces wild does not count
TheIoanna: No Charlene. It is not listed there.
TheIoanna: Only Bonus Deuces Wild is listed there.
Charlene: It is the 5th game mentioned.
TheIoanna: No. That is "Bonus Dueces Wild"
TheIoanna: A different game from "Deuces Wild"
Charlene: Neither one of them qualify, "Bonus Dueces Wild" nor "Deuces Wild".
TheIoanna: One moment I will post the screenshot of the chat with Iris.
TheIoanna: I was referred here by the casinomeister website.
TheIoanna: Here is the screenshot:
TheIoanna: http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?im...dcounts9va.jpg
Charlene: Please hold one moment.
TheIoanna: Are you still there?
Charlene: Your patience is appreciated. I will be with you in a moment.
Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
Charlene: Jonah, I spoke to my supervisor and she decided to since it is our mistake, she will grant you the rollover of the $12.000 including the deuces wild game up to now. Please be advised for future reference that the "Dueces Wild" nor any other "MultiHand Video Poker" do not count towards the rollover requirement.
Charlene: So any games played after will not qualify anymore as you are now informed correctly that it does not qualify for the rollover. Once you reach the 12.000 we will adjust his account so you can take the money out.
Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
TheIoanna: Charlene, since I was told these were the terms... I should be able to continue to play that game to meet my rollover.
TheIoanna: Also, how much have I wagered so far?
Charlene: I am sorry but that is not possible, we will grant you the funds you have played so far but that is all.
Charlene: If you include this game it is $8,244.90.
TheIoanna: Ok, well I will be reporting this decision to the casinomeister, as well as the discrepancy between your posted terms on your website and what you are telling me.
TheIoanna: I played here because you are an accredited casino
TheIoanna: This is outrageous.
Charlene: It clearly states on our website that this game is excluded. However since this was our mistake we will still grant you the funds you played, but you are informed now and therefore we will not be able to continue giving you the rollover on this game.

[kiolka]

I think they are being very reasonable. They have counted the wagering for you up to this point. Yes you were told something in error, but I think they are making up for it.

[gaming_mouse]

Originally Posted by kiolka

I think they are being very reasonable. They have counted the wagering for you up to this point. Yes you were told something in error, but I think they are making up for it.

The key point is that what I was told is in agreement with the posted terms on their website. I don't think it's fair for them to claim that posted terms are in error. In fact, one of the CM's rules for Accredited Casinos is that they must stick to their T&C. That is my main problem with their response.

Thanks for your reply,
Jonah

[soflat]

Bonus Deuces Wild and Deuces Wild are two different games. They should count it.

I guess they cover themselves by stating they can change the terms any time they like. As I understand it Mansion did that too.

The problem with such a term is that it becomes a bait and switch whereby they could make the bonus impossible to clear at any point after you deposit.

[bpb]

I don't understand why they're telling you that all video poker games are excluded. Their list of excluded games on their website doesn't indicate that. http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm

I'm confused ...

[gaming_mouse]

Originally Posted by bpb

I'm confused ...

Welcome to the club

[liquuid_fusion]

I was planning on playing certain VP games that are not excluded too, but in the email they sent me after I was credited a bonus, it said all VP games are excluded. I played 3 Card Poker instead to be safe. I think their site is misleading, they should just say all VP games are excluded if that is the case.

[VMSCasinos]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

http://www.vipcasinos.com/
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...nus.htm#signup
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

[soflat]

Originally Posted by VMSCasinos

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

http://www.vipcasinos.com/
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...nus.htm#signup
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

What about Deuces Wild?

[bpb]

Originally Posted by VMSCasinos

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

http://www.vipcasinos.com/
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...nus.htm#signup
http://info.vipcasinos.com/en/casino...sino_games.htm

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

Double Deuces Wild isn't excluded from the bonus.
Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist on the RTG platform.
I'm pretty sure Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist in any casino anywhere.

If you're talking about Double Bonus Deuces Wild, well, that doesn't exist in RTG's library of games either.

The OP is talking about Deuces Wild video poker, and I still don't see it on the excluded list at the links you've posted. Bonus Deuces Wild is clearly excluded, but Deuces Wild isn't.