Giantvegas wont pay $4879 in winnings

[Jon-Jon]

aieeeee - where? I went through it and was sure I sorted out the problems, but will do so again...thanks for the heasdup!!!

late nights and in the need of specs now..

cheers!

edit --> found it - like a dog with mangement - should have been mangement, eh!

[Casinomeister]

...Hopefully, you'll be paid as a result of this thread, however. You are clearly owed.

But not if the player has more than one account.

So Jon-Jon, you post over at winnersonline basically claiming your casino's are trustworthy and now you are refusing to play a player who appears to have followed your terms and conditions?

If a player has more than one account, the terms and conditions have been broken.

I'm requesting further information. I hope kreome read carefully my terms and conditions of the "Pitch a Bitch" section: WARNING: FRAUDULENT CLAIMS WILL BE FULLY INVESTIGATED. YOU WILL BE BILLED €500 FOR THE EFFORT AND TIME SPENT! If this is a matter of a fraudulent claim, it's going to be a crappy Christmas for kreome. Kreome is in Germany and so are my lawyers - it will be no problem for me to collect.

Just a heads up.

[scrollock]

. All I can say is that there are three accounts with exactly the same play, opened on the same day (along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough. The casino was also kind enough to refund any money and offer another free bonus.

Hmm, thats sounds very much like the excuse golden palace used some time back to try and screw a load of players, i.e. accounts opened in the same time frame, similar styles of play.

the similar styles of play were simply "sticky bonus tactics", only problem was that this "fraud" gang was a worldwide conspiracy and its members were spread from the UK,germany and australia.

(along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough

this sounds like the casino is guessing there is fraud going on using circumstantial evidence, rather than having actual evidence or proof.

if there really is fraud going on, why are you giving him another bonus, if he is a fraudster, you lock him out and tell him never to come back!

if this guy is a fraudster, then hes not a good one, hes played an excluded game (allowed, although does not to WR), there is an advantage to playing these games even though they dont count to the WR (which is why some casinos will void any winnings if they are played at all).

so if he astute to know this and the advantage entailed in doing this, i find it unlikely that he would chose to use roulette when BJ was available under the same conditions, with a fraction of the house edge of roullette

[Dirk Diggler]

There's another player just turned up over at WOL claiming they are confiscating over $7000 off of them. They say they have PAB here.

Seems that they've played in a similar way to kreome.

[kreome]

I see now in the winneronline.com and I also see you gave Jon Jon email, I think Jon Jon will respond the same that the player did not understand well the terms and condition and that he interprate different the phrase does not count towards the wagering.

It is probably one of the players Bryan talked about here in this thread that also pitched a bitch

[caruso]

This is it? "Similar playing style"?

1) "Similar style of play" is not indicative of the three accounts belonging to one person. Many, many, many players have a "similar style of play". I will have a "similar style" to many players. I have only one account per casino.

You have not been "frauded" when a bunch of players play in a certain way, or conspired against. You have been beaten. Handle it.

2) The accusation itself, even if it were true, is not enough. Example: the recent Cirrus case had indisputable evidence of GENUINE fraud, ie. the player signed the "wrong" name to an email and signed up all his accounts from the same home address; he was clearly, provenly guilty. "Similar style" is meaningless.

It seems to me this excuse has been shovelled out and taken at big, fat face value. Based on the evidence presented here, you owe this player.

As to the WOL thread...

http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=22437

...apparently, although the terms state that roulette "doesn't count", they sent out an EMAIL to the player, saying that roulette is "excluded".

Now, why would they not say that roulette is excluded in the TERMS? There is no need to send an email if the same information is simply added to them.

It's also clear at this point that the casino can differentiate between "does not count" and "excluded", and that this distinction is being used to very sharp effect by whoever's in charge here.

Nevertheless, the player is bound by the site rules he signed up under, NOT an apparent email sent AFTER he deposited. This is a smart sleight of hand by the casino, but it doesn't cut it. He is bound by your SITE RULES. Site rules cannot get mislaid in a spam folder or just plain delayed or not received. Site rules are therefore binding. Emails sent after the event are NOT binding.

In neither case do I see any evidence to suggest that both players are not owed.

[caruso]

Here are the terms. Roulette is clearly allowed. They even refer to "withdrawing winnings" after playing roulette, lol. Note that video poker IS excluded. Roulette, however, is plainly non-restricted.

[kreome]

I played half a year ago and the terms were different, now roulette is allowed to play and also count towards wagering, when I played it did not count but you could play it not for the wagering.

[kreome]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

[Casinomeister]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

What I am concerned about is players using the fora to either blackmail casinos when they know they (the player) is in the wrong, or just trying to damage a person's business by spewing false shit (oh, the imagery). I try to take each issue as it is, as they stand, regardless if it's a former rogue - present rogue - or future rogue. Keep your money - that ain't the issue. The integrity of the board is.

It's easy to make public accusations when using an anonymous presence. But it needs to be kept in check at all times. Just because a casino screwed up in the past (and the more it looks like it - it wasn't the casino that screwed up, but someone at RTG http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...as-vs-rtg.html ) it doesn't mean you are in the clear.

I'm waiting for further information from the casino and or Jon-Jon. I was under the impression that this was a case of several accounts opened by one person. Playing patterns, playing styles, whatever, this needs clarification. If you are in the right, then we're cool. If you are not, then it's not cool.

Now it's the cusp of a weekend. I hope by Monday this issue is cleared up