Number 41

[spearmaster]

LOL... don't get me started on video games... I had "Pong" when it came out... my friends were world-champion video game players in college (and even wrote some of the Atari games)... and I did Dragon's Lair on That's Incredible, which aired Thanksgiving 1983 - too bad it's impossible to find any video of that anywhere.

I still prefer pinball, though... LOL...

Off to Japan for a few days but will be keeping in close touch here!

[johnsteed]

***

Daffy

LOL...I played...that's about it... Basketball was fun...but I was a thug. The coach kept three of us on the team to brutalize the best center/forward on the opposition. Hard fouls and rebounding was our specialty...we would regularly all foul out...lol. Somehow our team would win though...we went to the Texas state quarterfinals my junior and senior years. I think my high game was like 6-7pts. (mostly foul shots)

the dUck

Interesting piece dUck.

Hmmm, methinks you're a big man dUck. Is this true? Even to make it as a rebounder in a high school, I'm guessing you were at least 6'4" (at LEAST), 210 lbs.

At least those 6-7 pts will be memorable. I was so horrible in junior high (middle-school), that my game high was 3 points (they didn't count 3's in junior high, so it was a 2-pointer from 3-pt ranger though... w/converted free throw). Sadly, I used to play that 2pt shot in my head over-and-over again. I made on the high school team, in grade 11. Having practiced like crazy over that summer/fall, I made it on the bench. By grade 12, I made it as a starter. And to boot, I'm only 5'9" (at the most). I was obviously a small guard though. And to clear, Canadian high school competition was boys vs. boys. U.S. high school basketball is men vs. men, with great coaches (that's the general perception). My high school team actually went South for a tournament, against some other Canadian high school teams and high school teams from North Dakota and Minnesota. Needless to say, they WERE basketball. Oddly, it was as though they all had the same shaved crew-cuts, they all ran the same way, and they had that look that they would some day serve their "MISSION" (Utahesque if you're getting my drift... not that I have a problem with that... that's just THAT look that they all had). Compared to us, they were giants, and on average, outweighed us by about 15-20 lbs.

If I could do it all over again, even though I really love playing basketball, I would have tried to have become a baseball player. Not that Canada had developed great players in my specific region (minus 2 Major Leaguers who're in the Majors now). The key word is try. 5'9" guys can make it in baseball (except pitchers), it's literally impossible if they're basketball players (and I don't really consider Spud Webb or Nate Robinson as great exceptions, because they're not really full-time players... although we're only at the beginning of Robinson's career). The best basketball player that I can think of who's under 6-feet in height, would be Damon Stoudamire (roughly 5'10"). People like Isiah Thomas and John Stockton, were 6 feet and taller.


Spearmaster

LOL... don't get me started on video games... I had "Pong" when it came out... my friends were world-champion video game players in college (and even wrote some of the Atari games)... and I did Dragon's Lair on That's Incredible, which aired Thanksgiving 1983 - too bad it's impossible to find any video of that anywhere.

Spearmaster, I REALLY want to know about you're involvement with Dragon's Lair on That's Incredible.

a) Were you a part of the team that designed Dragon's Lair?

b) Were you an "ACE" at Dragon's Lair (Space ACE pun intended), therefore you were on the show?

c) Or did you "film" (direct) a piece on "Dragon's Lair" for That's Incredible?

Regardless of options A-C, that's impressive... or yet, That's Incredible. Geez, I'm kind of hoping you were one of those same episodes that they were talking about the Amityville house. You know, that doll from the movie REALLY freaked me out, when the eyes would flip around to that red glow. Creepy stuff. That's Incredible incredibly always seemed to run something about that house. Always a MUCH better show that REAL PEOPLE (and what was up with using that Kid as the host... the Kid from the Hershey's Chocolate Milk commercials and The Christmas Story... who's the producer of that show?).

Funny thing about "Pong" (which I learned just recently thanks to that link about George Plimpton... which led me to Intellision... and so on...), is that it's generally perceived to be the first home video game system. I believe it came out in late '72, but it was actually released just after Magnovox's "Odyssey" (which had been developed years before... back in '68) which came out towards the early part of '72.

Funny thing about (I know you don't want to be talking about video games... sorry) those who designed Atari games. They never got any credit for their work. IF your college friends were the ones behind the E.T. (game) debacle (of '83), shame on them (I'm sure it's not them though... so I'm obviously joking). The story goes that those who designed that game, had a 6 week deadline to finish the game by Christmas of '82. They DID finish it (in 5 weeks), although it was a piece-of-crap game (generally rated as one of the worst games EVER created in the history of ALL video games). With all the hype surrounding E.T. and Atari back in '82, they were certain that this game would be a masterpiece. They produced about 5 million copies of it, despite that there were only 10 million Atari systems in people's homes. By the time it got out, and word-of-mouth hit, the games didn't sell. All the stores had a recall, and with 14 big-wheelers loaded with the game, they dumped millions of copies in a landfill in New Mexico. There were stories that kids found these copies and had dug them up (which got in the press... and reminded everyone that no one at Atari studied Economics 101), so they apparently cemented the whole area to cover-up their mess (that's just one of the stories). I always wondered why you could find that game in junk bins for $1 (back in the mid-80's). If you ever wanted to know how Japan become SO powerful in the gaming industry, you could point to that specific game as being the end of the Atari/Intellivision/ColecoVision era (American companies). Thus, making it the crash of video games in '83.

Side note: (although this post is one big side note) Atari could have maintained it's power in the gaming industry had they not made the big blunder of NOT agreeing on a contract with Nintendo back in '83. Since the Atari name carried so much prestige in North America, Nintendo wanted to do (I believe) a joint venture with Atari. Basically, Nintendo had just developed their new 8-bit game system (headquarters in Kyoto, Japan), but they felt it would be great to have the Atari name on their product, in hopes of being a success overseas. Needless to say, there was this giant mess concerning Nintendo's rights over the Donkey Kong game. Nintendo agreed they'd only make Donkey Kong (future Kong games) for Atari video game systems. But... while they were negotiating on their new venture, Nintendo allowed Coleco to use Donkey Kong for their new Adam (computer) system. Nintendo argued that the Adam computer (Coleco computer) wasn't a video game system, rather a computer (which it was). Atari was furious, and broke off the deal. Actually, there was (also) a shake-up of sorts with those who worked at the top of the Atari chain, and those who supported the deal were those who lost their jobs (one man in particular), therefore the deal collapsed (or was an afterthought). To be clear, although Atari made systems up until the release of their Jaguar system in the mid-90s, they're now under (as I understand it). To think that they'll ALWAYS have their advertisement show-up in the movie "Blade Runner" in bright NEON colors (who could have envisioned that they would have suck so bad after that movie came out).

Spearmaster, IF you were a Pro-Gamer, having to become the best player at Dragon's Lair MUST have cost you a fortune at the time. Seeing how that game was a laser-disk game (few coin-op machines used this technology, because it was easily twice as expensive as regular machines at the time), as I recall, it was a .50 cent game where other games were still only .25 cents. Might mean so little now, but in the early '80s, that was bundle of cash just to play one game. That game was simply amazing when it came out, and in fact, other games (graphics) didn't catch-up to that level until the early '90s. The whole laser-disk phenomena never really blew-up like many assumed it would (ditto with laser-disk home theatres), but for what it was, it was ahead of it's time. Actually, if you ever wanted to know what was the reason behind games going from .25 cents to .50 cents, blame Dragon's Lair (AND certainly... inflation).

Sorry gentlemen, back to sports...

Steed

***

[Daffy]

Hmmm, methinks you're a big man dUck. Is this true? Even to make it as a rebounder in a high school, I'm guessing you were at least 6'4" (at LEAST), 210 lbs.

LOL...good guess!!! 6'3" , 205

Basketball-forward
Track-440yd dash
Baseball-right field
Football-tight end

After butting heads with 250lb defensive tackles...pushing 200lb basketballers around was easy...wasn't much "jumping" involved...lol.

Best guard on our team was like 5'7"...great at driving the lane for fouls or easy layups.
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Friend of mine bought the intellevision...we played mattel baseball for hours.

I had atari and sega...I liked "Gain Ground" and "Gauntlet". Kids played "Lalo" and "Mario Bros".

the dUck

[spearmaster]

a) Were you a part of the team that designed Dragon's Lair?

b) Were you an "ACE" at Dragon's Lair (Space ACE pun intended), therefore you were on the show?

c) Or did you "film" (direct) a piece on "Dragon's Lair" for That's Incredible?

b I was the one slaying the dragon Fran Tarkenton and Cathie Lee Crosby were the hosts then, I won't mention about Cathie Lee's fishnet top and how she played with the joystick...

Also on that show was Minnesota Fats and Willie Mosconi - boy that was a thrill... wasn't the Amityville show though

Re: Atari - did you know that Atari is Japanese for "checkmate"? And you're entirely right - they checkmated themselves, what a pity... I thought they were destined to be the future of video games until then. And no, my friend wasn't on the ET team as far as I know. He designed an RPG or three... his name was JP Britt.

However - the reason for Japan's rise in the video gaming industry is that, in all truth, they were way ahead of the Americans. Space Invaders marked the entry of Japan into the video game market from a little-known maker called Taito... who by the way is still small, unlike Konami, (remember Track and Field?) who is still a powerhouse today, and are also into casino slots. And strangely enough, the once-powerful Sega is now owned by a company called Sammy, who is arguably Japan's most successful maker of pachislo machines.

And of course, Nintendo revolutionized the home market, though their products first revolutionized the video arcades. I used to play Mario Brothers and Golf and Tennis for ages... Sony's got control of that market now with the Playstation 2, and hopefully the Playstation 3 will be as good as its hype. In the meantime, the new Xbox 360 is *hot*...

IF you were a Pro-Gamer, having to become the best player at Dragon's Lair MUST have cost you a fortune at the time. Seeing how that game was a laser-disk game (few coin-op machines used this technology, because it was easily twice as expensive as regular machines at the time), as I recall, it was a .50 cent game where other games were still only .25 cents. Might mean so little now, but in the early '80s, that was bundle of cash just to play one game. That game was simply amazing when it came out, and in fact, other games (graphics) didn't catch-up to that level until the early '90s. The whole laser-disk phenomena never really blew-up like many assumed it would (ditto with laser-disk home theatres), but for what it was, it was ahead of it's time. Actually, if you ever wanted to know what was the reason behind games going from .25 cents to .50 cents, blame Dragon's Lair (AND certainly... inflation).

Exactly right... it WAS damn expensive! But I had a bit of an advantage, besides good friends who were the real gamers of the lot and taught me everything I knew - not only did I work in the game room, I knew the owner of the machines I am a wannabe compared to many of my friends.

As for size, I am not as tall as Duck, but around the same weight LOL - and my career was track and field, starting as a sprinter, and jumper, and finally moving to the throwing events (I guess you know where my nick comes from now). 400 was *NOT* one of my strong events... 59 seconds would not get me into any final anywhere in the world... but I only ran that when I was competing in the decathlon

[Daffy]

As for size, I am not as tall as Duck, but around the same weight LOL - and my career was track and field, starting as a sprinter, and jumper, and finally moving to the throwing events (I guess you know where my nick comes from now). 400 was *NOT* one of my strong events... 59 seconds would not get me into any final anywhere in the world... but I only ran that when I was competing in the decathlon

Showing my age again...lol.

Our events were 100yd-dash...220yd-dash...440yd-dash...880yd-run...and the mile.

Whoever named the 440 a dash was a saddistic ba$tard...lol.

We were short-handed for one meet and the coach entered me in the 440...the 100 dash...and the effing HIGH HURDLES.

I made the finals in the 440 (big surprise) and the 100 (miracle)...and managed not to fall on the hurdles(ultra carefull...whole team was laughing their a$$es off).

Don't worry...I was toast in the finals on both events.

the dUck

[spearmaster]

LOL.

Yeah, I know what you mean about age. I went to the state championships for the 50 yards when I was 12 or 13, but stupid old me passed on that event (which I would have won) because I thought I'd try the 400 for the first time in my life - needless to say I flopped miserably

High hurdles were a tall problem for me (pun intended) because I have short legs... so when doing the decathlon at the national championships after moving to Hong Kong (actually did 14 events in two days because I did all the throwing events as well) my task was not how to get over the hurdles, but how to knock them down without ruining my stride too much I could do low hurdles fine, but those high hurdles seemed like they were at nose height! Pole vault was another miserable flop but I still finished 4th out of 6 entrants overall... managed to win three of the four throwing events though

[Daffy]

Spear,

Sounds like you were a track star...I didn't explain that I was a reluctant draftee.

All "minor" sports at our school were coached by assistants from the football team. Head football coach doubled as the athletic director...he decided the fate of the football players in the off-season. I was allowed to play other sports if I chose...but I was put on the track team.

My sole event was the 440...that's it...that's all I trained for.

The short-handed meet I described above...that morning we were given our additional events on the bus on the way to the track...lol. Thank gawd...I didn't get the pole vault.

They had some hurdles set up on the infield for practice or warmup. I found a long-legged ga-loot from another school and he showed me the steps. Three strides and step over the hurdle. I tried it twice...then we ran the race...lol.

the dUck

[johnsteed]

***

Well, thank you kindly (dUck and Spearmaster) for destroying whatever sort of image I had of you, prior to the past page of this thread. I was under the impression that we're all at our computers for too many hours out of the day, hence we're anything BUT athletes (myself excluded... although I'm in good shape from hiking). Goes to show me that one should never stereotype those who post here (lol).

I would have to think that both of your biographies would be an excellent read.

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I read this article today on SI.com (Sports Illustrated), on my favorite subject, Barry Bonds. This "piece" was written by Steve Hofstetter. One of the many young and dumb writers working over at a revamped (and now 2nd tier) sports website.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...nds/index.html


Reviewing some of the most eye-catching excerpts from the article, I had this to add...


S.I. - Turns out Bonds was just talking about whether he'd retire after the season. But I don't like watching Barry Bonds play. I don't think he's good for the game, and I have never found evidence that he is a nice person.


Nice is irrelevant. I wish people would get over that already. He's not "pretending" to be nice. No one is losing sleep over the fact that Barry doesn't get along with the media, and is generally low-key (ignoring that ultra embarrassing Paula Abdul thingy he did yesterday... oy...). It's not new NEWS, so why keep reiterating such useless facts. Next...


S.I. - Remember, this is the same guy whose prenup was voided because his camp had doctored it after it was signed. A prenup between Bonds and a Swedish immigrant who'd only been in the country a month and could barely speak English. Isn't love grand?


It sure is, ain't it? Actually, she was a Canadian immigrant. She was an international model who had been living in Montreal for quite some time (not just a month), so it's not like he picked her up off the street, and forced her into to anything. Secondly, as I understand it, they had met in Montreal when Bonds first started out in Pittsburgh back around '86. Also, she had a reputation of playing around (with other men) and loved the night scene, thus Bonds wanted to get a divorce. She went public about the divorce, not he, and he paid her very well (and is still paying her very well). In fact, aside from their son that they had together, Bonds (it is said) has been known to take care of her other children (her other boy has been spotted numerous times around the GIANTS clubhouse). Next...


S.I. - Let's look at this logically. Bonds started as a base-stealing threat with ho-hum power. Not during his rookie season, but for the first six years of his career. He hit more than 25 home runs once in the first six years he played professional baseball. Hank Aaron hit more than 25 home runs in five of his first six seasons. Babe Ruth did it in all six of his first seasons as a position player. You'll find similar stats for Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Harmon Killebrew, Reggie Jackson and every other great home run hitter not named Sosa. Home run hitters don't blossom in their seventh year in the majors. They are genetically engineered.


Geez! How can you look at anything "logically" if you can't even get your facts right (hello editors over at S.I., are you awake... or were you all fired to save money?) about Bonds' public divorce.

Okay, I'll play along... Play "pretend" logic. Bonds didn't start off with ho-hum power. He ALWAYS had exceptional power, even back in college. Sure, it's not what it is today, but that has more to do with his knowledge of the strike-zone, a greater swing (VERY compact), and the best pitch recognition probably since Ted Williams. Hank Aaron has said numerous times, that his pitch recognition was at it's greatest when he was in his late '30s. Some skills need a long time to develop. Now, Bonds could have hit more HR's in his first four campaigns in the League. Why didn't he? Surely it takes some players longer than other to develop. Not every player comes out of the minor hitting 40 HR's a year. But another VERY important reason why he didn't hit more than 30 (until '90), was that he was the lead-off hitter his first few years in the majors. He wasn't approaching his at-bats, with the thought of pulling the ball for homers. He was a singles/doubles/triples hitter back then. Other lead-off hitters like Rickey Henderson, Johnny Damon, and Derek Jeter (to name a few), could also hit 30 HR a year. But that's not their game.



S.I. - If that's not enough for you, common side effects of steroids are aggression and water retention in the neck and head.

No, that wasn't ANYTHING for me actually. I'd be giving you negative reputation points if you were posting here. Now, uh-huh, the steroids. The knee-jerk reaction of every comedian and sportsbeat writer looking to make a name for themselves in the sports world, bringing up the issue of steroids. You see, the other facts were absolutely useless. He may very well be right, but I hate the arrogance of it all. Bonds has a big head, because of steroids? Maybe. But it's still only a theory without any REAL hard facts.

Even if Bonds started doing them, it seems as though he didn't start doing them until the end of the '99 (injury-riddled) campaign. Are we going to ignore his HOF numbers that he had put up prior to his uber-explosion at the turn of the Century?


S.I. - I don't want Bonds hurt. I couldn't wish physical pain on a human being. But if the effects of steroids push him into retirement, it's only fair. Even if you're rooting for Bonds, you want to see him do this the right way. Or the right-ish way, since it's WAY too late for the right way.


Actually, I'm a greedy fan. I want him to keep playing until he's in his early 50's. At least. Leaving now wouldn't prove anything. What's with this "do the right thing and retire for the good of baseball" crap that the media has been throwing out there for the past 3 seasons now? Like everything else in the sporting world is so pure? Like the very people who write articles as lame as this one (redundant and going on about how his head looks like a fruit to make a point) are such "GOOD" people. Please... The world was never an innocent place, and although we can all hope and strive for excellence, it never will be. That has nothing to do with Barry Bonds.


S.I. - Maybe I would. I used Google four separate times in this column.


Really? Well, you obviously didn't search for too much regarding anything about Barry Bonds. My guess is that you visited the Del Monte homepage 4 times!!!


Closing thoughts...

Did Bonds do steroids? Perhaps. Likely. It sure looks as though he did. No argument here. I find it pointless debating it, because despite whatever either party thinks or believes, it's all about biased opinions. There are no hard facts, and enough points that lead us to believe that he did something.

I, being a monster Barry Bonds fan, try to avoid such debates. Sure, I hope that he never took anything. If he did do steroids, being a true fan, I'd overlook it. My weakness? Perhaps.

What I do know, is that Bonds was leaps-and-bounds ahead of every player from his generation ('90-98) prior to his explosion. Bonds worked out 5-7 hours a day, working on reflexes, weight training, cardio, ect... He worked out with Jerry Rice numerous times (on a regular basis up until a couple summers back), and their workouts have been known to be the most demanding out there. Only Mike Jordan's or Karl Malone's regime comes close (and now Kobe Bryant's). He worked his ass off. He put in the work.

If Bonds did do steroids, I believe it was because the rest of the league was doing it (percentages we'll never truly be privy to). Despite all that Bonds was accomplishing throughout the '90s, people lost interest. The year that McGwire and Sosa were getting all the headlines, Bonds was still putting up MVP numbers for a winning team (they just missed making it to the post-season that year, in a 1-game playoff for the wildcard spot against Sosa's Cubbies). Seeing that players of lesser talent getting all of that publicity must have REALLY got to him. McGwire was always a great HR hitter, but he was never as great as Bonds (in terms of all-around ability). You can put together a very good case, that Bonds could have very well been the MVP every year from '90-98.

If Bonds never did do steroids, then he's probably on par with Babe Ruth (although I have Bonds being first already). Now, Ruth could pitch, and might have been a Top-25/50 pitcher (All-Time) had he gone down that road (instead of become arguably the greatest/most valuable position player). But Bonds could do EVERYTHING on the field (sorry, today's game would never allow a pitcher to play the field on off days on a regular basis).

Looking at some of Bonds accomplishments, these are the ones that I believe to be the most valuable.

So far...

- +700 HR/500 SB: Bonds is the only member of the 500/500 club, and in fact is the only member of the 400/400 club!!! His combination of power/speed is unrivaled.

- +2,000 runs scored: 6th All-Time... Bonds has ALWAYS been an exceptionally smart baserunner. Only Larry Walker (that I can think of) is in his league, when it comes to IQ on the basepads. If Bonds plays 2 more seasons, he should own this record as well (thank you Rickey).

- +2,750 hits: Bonds has always been walked (a ton), so despite playing 20 seasons and owning a .300 career BA, he still hasn't reached the 3,000 hits barrier. If he plays 2 more seasons, he'll get there. Amazing actually, considering that Ruth, Ted Williams, and Frank Robinson, never reached that milestone. And they were all great power-hitters, who drew a bunch of walks (although Robinson didn't draw walks like the other 3... still a fair amount though).

- BA .300: Amazing that just a few years ago, he was well below the .300 mark (around .288) and has been able to get it up to .300.

- OBP .442 (onbase percentage): 6th All-Time

- Slugging % .611: 5th All-Time

- OPS (onbase + slugging percentages): 4th All-Time

- 7 MVP's: The next best are players who have won 3. In fact, Bonds finished in the Top-5 in MVP voting another 5 times (finishing 2nd twice).

- 8 Gold Gloves: Not bad for someone playing LF, a position that players are seldomly award a GG.

- 1,853 RBI: Really, he should have a ton more. Why not? That's precisely the moments where he's pitched around, when his teammates are on the bases. There's nothing more frustrating than watching Bonds being pitched around with players on base (and these, EVEN that doesn't matter ). It's a miracle really, that he's been able to drive-in +100 (RBI) 12 different seasons.

- 2,311 Bases On Balls (a.k.a. Walks): Oddly, once Bonds career is done, this may be one of the hardest records for any other player to break. Perhaps the media doesn't respect his game at times, but the opposing pitchers and managers certainly do. THEY are the ones that would like him to retire (lol).

- 607 Intentional Walks: Funny that Bonds has more than doubled Aaron for this record (Aaron is 2nd All-Time at 293 intentional passes). That's a SURE sign of respect from opposing managers. Actually, Buck Showalter (then the D-Backs manager) gave Bonds an Intentional Walk with a bases loaded situation. The bases were loaded when Bonds came to the plate!!! That's the only time that that had been done in the history of MLB. Actually, it was a good move. The D-Backs only allowed 1-run on the play, and had won the game 8-7 over the Giants.

- 12 Silver Sluggers (Awards): He could always hit for power.

Looking at all of Bonds numbers and accomplishments, you'll never find another player where every statistical category is as good across the board.

I can completely understand people not liking him, but he is great. I've never seen anyone better than Bonds in baseball. Not even close.

Attachment 2265

Barry Bonds at his all-time worst (although to certain groups, maybe at an all-time high).



Steed

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