Warning Winnerpoker not paying affiliates

[frankm69]

in december winner offered me to sending them players an a cpa deal and 1000 $ money to run private tournaments.

i thought a platin sponsor at gpwa must be trustable

so we setupt a tournament with 1000 $ added to the pricepool on december 22 and promote them at liveevents and on the internetsite
(i`m working together with some live tournamentmanagers cause they have no time for the affiliatethings and share the comissions with them)

we got over 80 registrations and 56 depositing players but they refused to pay the 8300 $ comission

after the tournament the am told me that my players are not playing poker (i can`t imagine that this is really true cause when the players deposit money and play our tournament they have money left in their accounts and the only thing that they can do with this money is to play poker !)

but i asked the am to give the players some time to play cause its xmas and they all are in stress with buying gifts...

and i offered him to run another tournament and start a rakerace where we give away 3 entrys to the one million guaranteed tournament (all prices paid from me !) but never get an answer (normally a programm works together with their affiliates to get the best results of a relationship-but maybe thats only my opinion)

i have shown the am where and how we promote the tournament at the site from the tournamentmanager

the next thing that the am did was contacting the tournamentmanager and told him that winner is still interested in working together with him and want him to bring them more players-so he tried to bring me out of bussiness

i hope they can explain why they want more from these bad players that are not playing poker !?

if this is the way you are doing bussiness you won`t go far



at the end i want to say sorry to everyone who read this story in another affiliateforum but i see it as a performance of duty to warn other affiliates for working with these scammers

[Roanan]

A Playtech poker site ripping off it's customers?
Gee...what a surprise.

[Winneraff]

Let’s clarify some facts regarding your affiliate account at Winner Affiliates:
Someone contacted Winner Affiliates and asked for a CPA deal, and a special poker promotion at Winner.com. He claimed that he is representing a poker site, and that he can generate decent traffic.
Soon after the promotion began we realized that all players are depositing exactly 20EUR. 100% of these players tried to make a deposit. Most players who managed to deposit at Winner.com, never logged back to their account. These are clear signs of a CPA abuser. Why would one deposit money at a poker room, but never play?
We have a fraud team which immediately noticed this subspecies activity, and informed us of the problem.
We sent an email to the owner of the poker site, informing him of the trouble with one of his moderators (apparently you). The owner of the site claimed that you are his friend, but he then created his own affiliate account.
Due to the confusing situation we asked not to send anymore traffic, and we offered the person 50% revenue share for this fraud traffic.
We ask for more time to investigate, but you chose to post disinformation on good affiliate forums.
Our affiliate program is relatively new, yet we already paid thousands of affiliates. We pay full amounts, on time, even if the traffic looks bad, but why should we pay for fraud?
We have a huge budget for player acquisition, a very good product, and an experienced team of dedicated affiliate managers. They are here to manage real affiliates, and establish healthy business relationships.
If you want to discuss further then contact me personally ilan @ WinnerAffiliates.com, or call me +44-800-0470-700.

[frankm69]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winneraff View Post
Let’s clarify some facts regarding your affiliate account at Winner Affiliates:
Someone contacted Winner Affiliates and asked for a CPA deal, and a special poker promotion at Winner.com. He claimed that he is representing a poker site, and that he can generate decent traffic.

from the beginning i told hanan that i`m not the owner of these sites but i`m working with them and am able to send a lot of new player-think 56 depositing players for the first month is not bad

Soon after the promotion began we realized that all players are depositing exactly 20EUR. 100% of these players tried to make a deposit. Most players who managed to deposit at Winner.com, never logged back to their account. These are clear signs of a CPA abuser. Why would one deposit money at a poker room, but never play?

20 euro is the minimum deposit that a player have to make. the players signed up cause they want to play the tournament with the added pricepool. i don`t believe that noone of them is coming back and noone of them is playing poker.

why should they make bigger deposits if you only offer a 200 $ bonus at a rate with 100 points per bonusdollar ?

you are part of a big network with about 40 pokerrooms and the most of them offer much better bonuses than you !

why should they play at winnerpoker when you offer nothing special ? if you want to grow fast and become a big one in this network you have to do- maybe only my thought

maybe offering a big tournament just before xmas to getting new players was a mistake

i offered you a couple off times to run a rakerace with prices that i pay and i`m sure that all these players would like this and play much more but never get an answer on this

why are you not working together with your affiliates if they try to drive the results going better ?

We have a fraud team which immediately noticed this subspecies activity, and informed us of the problem.
We sent an email to the owner of the poker site, informing him of the trouble with one of his moderators (apparently you). The owner of the site claimed that you are his friend, but he then created his own affiliate account.
Due to the confusing situation we asked not to send anymore traffic, and we offered the person 50% revenue share for this fraud traffic.

you have made a deal with me so it doesn`t matter what the siteowner is doing !
We ask for more time to investigate, but you chose to post disinformation on good affiliate forums.

i tell the story from my site cause i have no proof that the things you are saying are true and i know that some players are playing

Our affiliate program is relatively new, yet we already paid thousands of affiliates. We pay full amounts, on time, even if the traffic looks bad, but why should we pay for fraud?

maybe my players are bad (not playing much or didn`t find the time to play because xmas) but how could they be fraud if they all are playing in the tournament ?

how could they be fraud if they are able to withdraw money after proving their identity ?

so saying you pay the full amount on time even if the traffic looks bad can`t be true

all the players you get are real players who made a deposit and qualify for a cpa-so you have to pay my comission

We have a huge budget for player acquisition, a very good product, and an experienced team of dedicated affiliate managers. They are here to manage real affiliates, and establish healthy business relationships
If you want to discuss further then contact me personally ilan @ WinnerAffiliates.com, or call me +44-800-0470-700.
Cost Per Acquisition (CPA)


Winner.com offers its affiliates a very competitive CPA commission rate for real depositing poker players. You will receive a guaranteed flat rate for every new depositing player that you refer. The more players you bring, the more money per player you make. This structure delivers commission regardless of whether the player you referred wins or loses.

Commission Tables

The tables below set forth the consideration that applies to the Revenue Share and to the CPA payment plans. Table A shows the percentage levels that are set monthly according to your account's Casino Net Revenue. Table B shows the percentage levels that are set monthly according to your account's Poker Net Revenue. Table C shows the percentage levels that are set monthly according to your account's Bingo Net Revenue. Table D shows the stages of the Casino CPA payment plan, in accordance with the number of new qualifying Players that you directed to the Sites each month. Table E shows the stages of the Poker CPA payment plan, in accordance with the number of new qualifying Players that you directed to the Sites each month. Table F shows the stages of the Bingo CPA payment plan, in accordance with the number of new qualifying Players that you directed to the Sites each month.

CPA Plan - Poker:

1 to 10 new players per month - $70 CPA per player
11 to 20 new players per month - $80 CPA per player
21 to 30 new players per month - $95 CPA per player
31 to 40 new players per month - $120 CPA per player
41 to 50 new players per month - $135 CPA per player
51 new players and more per month - $150 CPA per player

*A "new player" is a player directed by you who makes a minimum initial deposit of $20.

[Winneraff]

We run a young affiliate program, promoting a good brand. Image is one of the most important aspects for an affiliate program, especially a new program, which must build up a good reputation.
We are working hard to develop a good image, but does it mean I should pay for fraud traffic? If 2 or 3 CPA abusers decide to damage Winner Affiliates by posting on decent forums then I suddenly have to pay for their fraudulent activity?
Both these people, Mika and Frankm69 approached us. They asked for a CPA deal and a guaranteed prize pool for private tournaments. We were generous enough to agree to most of their conditions (I’ll save everyone’s time and will avoid posting all of their email here).
They both have players who tried signing up at Winner from the same computer. It still doesn’t mean that those people managed to play at the same tournament.
When the affiliate managers and I asked to speak over the phone they came up with excuses – one said that he lost his voice and that he is on the way to the doctor. That same guy told me later on that his English isn’t good enough. When I said that I have a German speaker in the office, and that he can translate then he totally ignored and just kept threatening that if I don’t pay some money then he’ll keep trashing us on forums.
It really feels like blackmail. The fact that we have already paid hundreds of thousands of dollars this month speaks for itself. We have plenty of money, which is being spent on affiliates, on promotions, and on many other activities. We are about to add a sportsbook and turn Winner into one huge brand. We work with big affiliate and with small forums. All the money has been paid on time, and the fact is that most affiliates are pushing us up on their sites (or push Winner harder among their offline communities).

[rikkerbuddy]

sounds like the affiliate is blackmailing the affiliate program - seems to be a lot of that going around.
I have worked with them (not many players) and they are a ok with me. I hate seeing this type of thing.
Makes affiliates look bad too.

[frankm69]

stop lying any proof for the things you are saying ?

We run a young affiliate program, promoting a good brand. Image is one of the most important aspects for an affiliate program, especially a new program, which must build up a good reputation.
We are working hard to develop a good image, but does it mean I should pay for fraud traffic? If 2 or 3 CPA abusers decide to damage Winner Affiliates by posting on decent forums then I suddenly have to pay for their fraudulent activity? No but you have to pay for real players that i have sent you
Both these people, Mika and Frankm69 approached us. They asked for a CPA deal and a guaranteed prize pool for private tournaments. every affiliate is trying to get something special for his players-so nothing unusual i thinkWe were generous enough to agree to most of their conditions (I’ll save everyone’s time and will avoid posting all of their email here).
They both have players who tried signing up at Winner from the same computer. It still doesn’t mean that those people managed to play at the same tournament. so now you are starting to tell me that my players have signed up from the same pc ? and you need over a month to find this out but didn`t see this at once ? lol and you are allways saying this doesn`t mean that they managed to play at the same tournament but they all have played in our private tournament so please explain how this is possible from the same computer ? it is impossible and you know that but you keep lying even if its prooved that you do
When the affiliate managers and I asked to speak over the phone they came up with excuses – one said that he lost his voice and that he is on the way to the doctor. That same guy told me later on that his English isn’t good enough. When I said that I have a German speaker in the office, and that he can translate then he totally ignored and just kept threatening that if I don’t pay some money then he’ll keep trashing us on forums. i was ill when the am asked to call me but i gave him my number a few days later but why should i talk to you at the phone ?we didn`t find a solution by email and you keep lying and write me that my players are not playing but i have asked them at our tournamnets and find out that minimum ten players have plaid a couple of times
It really feels like blackmail. you have scamed me and i`m not giving up until you have paid me for the players i have sent you or have prooved that it is true what you are saying why should i belive things that are impossible ? and why should my players lie ?The fact that we have already paid hundreds of thousands of dollars this month speaks for itself. We have plenty of money, which is being spent on affiliates, on promotions, and on many other activities. We are about to add a sportsbook and turn Winner into one huge brand. We work with big affiliate and with small forums. All the money has been paid on time, and the fact is that most affiliates are pushing us up on their sites (or push Winner harder among their offline communities).

[poker.face]

Perhaps this is where TOS is relevant. If frankm69 was truthful at his statement, then there might be something wrong with the system the winner affiliate program is using. On the other side of coin, if Winneraff stands a point, then frankm69 might have not satisfied all the terms presented in the TOS.