I am more than 90% certain that all poker rooms are rigged

[WAYLANDER]

I can't believe it !!

Just had AA beaten by KK for the 2nd time this week !!

F##%ing Cheating B#%$£rd Cardrooms !!

Complete B%##^hit !!

F#@%ing Swindler's the lot of em !!

WAYLANDER

[pokeraddict]

Originally Posted by WAYLANDER

I can't believe it !!

Just had AA beaten by KK for the 2nd time this week !!

F##%ing Cheating B#%$£rd Cardrooms !!

Complete B%##^hit !!

F#@%ing Swindler's the lot of em !!

WAYLANDER

Don't you know AA only wins 3% of the time when KK is out? This way the poker room generates more rake because the weaker player with KK is more likely to play longer on his deposit then the good player that lost AA. More rake for the house and this way nobody wins. This is how online poker is

It really sounds silly when it's put into perspective.

[GaryWatson]

Most of my winning sessions are because my 9-3 or 2-6 offsuit beat AA KK. These hands are only a single pair. unlucky if you lose with them preflop but after the flop, not so unlucky. As pokeraddict stated. We play far more hands online & thats where i think you are getting confused. ive had 3 royal flushes but ive probably played over 2 million hands so that stat is not that surprising. I wouldnt worry about that sort of scamming online, the poker sites collect their rake reguardless of who wins. Games like roulette or blackjack you may have a point but my game of choice is poker. I prefer to play against my peers, not the house.

[quber]

Also, if the pokerrooms don't like the Sharks winning all the time why do they offer better bonuses and comps to the Sharks? Because they are the players they want. They end up playing higher stake tables, reach the rake cap more often and play hands faster thus generating more hands per hour.

Fishes slow it down by deliberating over their cards and more of them staying in a hand that they shouldn't which means less hands per hour.

Sharks generate more rake.

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by quber

Also, if the pokerrooms don't like the Sharks winning all the time why do they offer better bonuses and comps to the Sharks? Because they are the players they want. They end up playing higher stake tables, reach the rake cap more often and play hands faster thus generating more hands per hour.

Fishes slow it down by deliberating over their cards and more of them staying in a hand that they shouldn't which means less hands per hour.

Sharks generate more rake.

Yep without a doubt. Check out some of the high stakes pokerstars ring games. Some of these players are playing 10+ tables, all hitting max rake every hand. Their daily rake is in the 1000's. AA is constantly cracked due to bad play - how to you make a statistical variable for bad play? AA is cracked more in limit games than no-limit games because its more difficult to push a player off a hand. Small stake games it is difficult to push a player off a hand because many are just playing for a gamble.

I dont know the statistical win ratio for AA after the flop but if 10 players all call to see the flop, I dont think AA would have more than a 20% chance. I get worried holding AA with 2 callers, With 9 callers you are favorite but its odds on that your premium hand will be cracked

[pokeraddict]

Also keep in mind sharks (or let's call them semi-pros or pros ) will play 4,6,8 or even 12 tables at a time while the fishy (or let's call them casual players) will just play 1 table or maybe 2.

The comp programs are another great point. How many total donkeys are Supernova Elite at Stars? I'm guessing none.

[ace4suited]

strategy for winning poker is far more complex than anything that could be put in a single thread. Ultimately 20% of flops is too loose for a tight style that you are suggesting post flop. also there is a lot of $$ to be made in a) winning without a showdown with hand that isnt the best b) minimising losses when have 2nd best hand and c) maximising profits when have the best and doing appropriate bets to protect hand when appropriate that makes much of the focus of what you are saying not too big a factor overall as skill in these areas can easily make a profit outwaying the 5%.

In terms of the poker sites being rigged theory its kind of very hard to prove in absolute terms but the strongest arguement to me for it not being rigged without it getting complex is that only poor loosing players think that "it is rigged" where as strong experienced players never make these assertions.

Many randomising softwares are independantly audited and all pass. With 5% rake (actually not 5% as many sites have caps on rake per hand and some do not rake hands that do not see a flop/show down) it is hard for players to make a profit on average and many do not. It is a testiment to the level of skill and lack of riggedness that plenty players are able to make a profit

[dealer wins]

These days I find that online games $1-$2 and above tend to have mainly skilled players with only a few fishies.

The quality has IMO improved a hell of lot just in the 3 years ive been playing online.

And if you are playing with 8 or 9 half decent opponents and a 5% rake you are going to be lucky to break even let alone win.

I used to play for bonuses and win on top but now im happy to break even and collect a bonus.

I am fairly happy that most online rooms deal a fair game, and apart from the 1 network in my next paragraph I havnt seen anything to make me think rigged, and my pokertracker stats seem "normal" at a whopping 0.12BB/100 over 86998 hands

Out of all the online rooms I have played in only 1 has me suspicious and that's the crypto network. I have seen WAY to many unbelievable things on this network on an almost daily basis

[ThodorisK]

Yes, indeed, the fishes are getting fewer, but it is from fishes I got ripped off, so I think its the management playing as players. Anyway, I have stopped playing poker. I give a small probability that it was just a very high variance and not cheated by the management of the casinos, but I cannot afford to experiment any more.

Please do not continue this thread any more, reply to the other thread I started: "why it is for the interest of the casino to cheat skilled poker players". I will not reply to this thread again. I cannot follow them both. My mistake, I should had kept it to one thread.

[pokeraddict]

so I think its the management playing as players

So if it isn't cards that are rigged you lost because of cheating shills. I think you have the right idea to quit poker. Good luck in your next journey.