I am more than 90% certain that all poker rooms are rigged

[lots0]

Now I want you to do a test for me. This will prove to you that the sites manipulate the games. I want you to play at Pokerstars. Can you do that for me? Just play the freerolls.OK

How could anyone possibly tell anything playing free rolls? The play in free rolls is so erratic.

There are people (some that frequent this board) that are true professionals when it comes to analyzing play and software.

All the professionals will all tell you that there is NO WAY to tell if a software program is cheating unless you run tens if not hundreds of thousands of hands. So trying to analyze games by viewing two windows at the same time as you play is going to be about as accurate as a blind man in a pissing contest.

There are independent auditors that you can hire to check the validly and randomness of the games.

So if 90% of all poker rooms are rigged, why haven't a single one of these professional independent auditors spoken up about it?

[malleeboy]

Originally Posted by fatshaft

Well no it isn't, becasue Casinomeister was around and set-up in the days of online casinos (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

At that time there were no online poker rooms, and nor were there any poker sections within the whole of the Casinomeister site.

It is only latterly that poker has come more into this site, but you will note, that despite the sterling work that the 'Meister does in outing and rogueing shady casino operations, in poker it is incredibly rare, with AP being one of the very few. Even then there hasn't been a single case found ever of a site in someway rigging its software.

As you would say, that does I think prove a point?

Does this mean they don't? Just because someone has not put the money into cataloging and mapping hands from poker sites does not mean squeeky clean. The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America. You have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between live random poker and software written poker. They are TOTALLY different. There is no doubt that online poker is manipulated (because they can) for many reasons: a) to ensure quick results for tournament play (as they get no rake only entry fee)and: b) for ring games, the faster a hand is completed the more games are created in the hour and therefore more rake. Simple math and what I can see simple rationale.

You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and

2. Software manipulation ensures fast action and quick results ( I have seen so many setups where three players are all holding pocket pairs - ensuring an all-in scenarios - this is rare in live play, Quads appearing in 4 hands within an hour - never seen that in all my 30 years of playing live, flushs to make you think these are as common as pairs and to top it off, allinners getting runner, runner and winning against someone who has a st8 off the flop so many times it makes a mockery of the statistics of live play)

Without both above points working together, tourneys of this size would hold up the site for days.

I'm sorry but your argument is only based on your narrow view. However, any player of the live game would be very suspicious of the "spin" these online sites spew out, and be totally convinced of their charade once they have played online.

One day it will be proven. By the way, isn't poker run by random number generators like casino slots??? Hmmmm do I see something similar here????

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by malleeboy

Does this mean they don't? Just because someone has not put the money into cataloging and mapping hands from poker sites does not mean squeeky clean. The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America.

Have you read what anyone else has written here? Many players, and nearly all regular high volume internet players us PT to track play, it's why Absolute were rumbled. With the millions of hands that these players have on record, not a single one has ever found anything wrong with any of the current online poker rooms as far as the RNG goes. If you can provide evidence outside of "I was rivered by a one outer" then not only will you be the first, but you'll also achieve instant fame as the man who "cracked the internet poker conspiracy". Your fame will be instant, so get to it I urge you.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

You have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between live random poker and software written poker. They are TOTALLY different.

Yup, one involves single tabling with live people and has a far greater emphasis on reading abilitiy, the other is far more mathematical becasue reads are harder, and pushing people off hands is also harder becasue the ease of clicking a button, compared to physically pushing your chips in with your low flush draw etc means less chasers in live play.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

There is no doubt that online poker is manipulated (because they can)

There is plenty of doubt, in fact there is no reason to suspect they do this at all!?!?!?

Originally Posted by malleeboy

for many reasons: a) to ensure quick results for tournament play (as they get no rake only entry fee)and: b) for ring games, the faster a hand is completed the more games are created in the hour and therefore more rake. Simple math and what I can see simple rationale.

a) If we accept that two reasons are "many" then lets carry on. b) They can ensure quick results by increasing the blinds more quickly, having smaller starting stacks, and shortening the levels, so what is the need to go to the extremely difficult to achieve, and complicated lengths of fixing bust out hands? c) If a hand is completed faster, then surely the pots are smaller, so more hands, but possibly more rake? Want more rake - then reduce the clock per action, make faster software (like UB) or up the rake (like Boss moving to Euros, or Ladbrokes raking 6%)

Originally Posted by malleeboy

You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and

For Stars to run a 6 hour 12,000 player tourney (of which there are no actual examples anywhere in the world to date), I presume you are referring to a freeroll? You cannot compare a freeroll, with it's short stack, short rounds, and extreme loose play, with a 12,000 player live tourney with deep stack, long clock, and TAG play. Poker Stars weekly Million plays for 12 hours or more, and despite having a friendly structure is still far more quicker structuire than live play, and you get 3 times as many hands per hour, so really thats a 3 day tourney for 4000 players.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

2. Software manipulation ensures fast action and quick results ( I have seen so many setups where three players are all holding pocket pairs - ensuring an all-in scenarios - this is rare in live play, Quads appearing in 4 hands within an hour - never seen that in all my 30 years of playing live, flushs to make you think these are as common as pairs and to top it off, allinners getting runner, runner and winning against someone who has a st8 off the flop so many times it makes a mockery of the statistics of live play)

Selective memory. I rememeber sitting down to play a small stakes NL game last year, and within the first hour I saw a flopped AAA board, with the case Ace on the turn. Amazingly, the following morning I sat down and again within the first hour I saw a flopped AAA, with the case Ace on the turn. Rigged? Well the first was at Caesers Palace, and the second at Venetian. Later in the second day I was at MGM (my fave Vegas card room) and within the hour there had indeed been four shown down quads hands, two to the same girl, and happily one for me. I also got paid on the Casers hand as I held a King and got called by a Queen.

Celebrity late night poker a couple of years ago, 1st heat, 1st hand, and Stephen Hendry knocks an opponent out with a Royal Flush. I don't remember anything else about that series, but I remember this hand.

Play long enough you see it all, but you'll only remember the exceptional hands.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

Without both above points working together, tourneys of this size would hold up the site for days.

No they wouldn't, you clearly don't know how to set a tournament up to finish within a particular range of time. Why do you think casinos (live ones) have a certain clock, chip stack, and levels? It's not random, experience based upon how many players they historically get, and speed of play, coupled with when they need to finish, means they set up the structure accordingly. Online is the same.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

I'm sorry but your argument is only based on your narrow view.

<cough>

Originally Posted by malleeboy

However, any player of the live game would be very suspicious of the "spin" these online sites spew out, and be totally convinced of their charade once they have played online.

Many live players are, becasue when they go online they lose. Live players in general are poorer players, and are quick to assert the reason they lose is because of "fixing", sadly as more and more internet pros go live, they are finding their lack of ability is the route of their issues, not the poker sites.

Originally Posted by malleeboy

One day it will be proven. By the way, isn't poker run by random number generators like casino slots??? Hmmmm do I see something similar here????

No, but then you don't understand that slots are also a house game it seems?

[malleeboy]

My the force be with you all - because your senses are somewhere else.


I've had my say, good luck to you all.

[lots0]

malleeboy, I love the way you avoid the logical argument. I guess you avoid the logical argument because you don't have any facts or evidence to support your claims.

I'll try again though... If 90% of poker rooms are cheating why aren't they getting caught and outed by the independent professionals or the professional players that monitor and play at them?

The FBI and CIA are certainly not! Richard Nixon wasn't and he was running America.

Your tinfoil hat is showing...

[ak47poll]

Could someone please explain to me why there are so many aces and kings in the flops?! I wrote to 2 online poker companies and they couldnt explain why there were so many aces or kings in their flops!!
I watched 1000 flops and 687 times there was either a king or ace or both in the flops
I dealt 1000 flops with a deck of cards and 346 times there was an ace or king or both

It seems to me they fix the flops because everyone holds aces or kings!!!!!!!!!

[ak47poll]

Has anyone not noticed The "mysterious" player who appears when you have $2000 he has $4000 plays a few hands takes your $2000 with some ridiculous flops and then "disappears" MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[winbig]

Originally Posted by malleeboy View Post
You have to remember, in live poker 12000 entries would take over 7 days (possibly 10) to complete. PokerStars can achieve that feat in around 5-6 hours. Now there are two reasons for that:

1. The games are faster online ( but not that fast (without help from rigged software) that 11,999 players are eliminated in 6 hours), and

There's one slight flaw in your logic. You seem to forget that live tournaments don't have a 15-20 second time clock for you to act. This definitely accounts for quite a bit of the speed in which a big tournament plays out.

[ak47poll]

totally agree with everything you have said you have to be an idiot not to think they are fixed!! you can do anything with software EG with video pokers you can fix them never to pay a royal flush so goodness knows what these poker companies can do PS my girlfriend is a web designer and iternet marketing expert with a very high IQ she played online poker after years of playing "real" cards 2 weeks later she said never again would she paly online poker Quote "the software is fixed"

[ak47poll]

You are an idiot i worked for a company in ireland famous for its poker machines ETC which i cant name for obvious reasons we could fix the hands to what ever we wanted and you think the software on online poker cant be fixed LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOL