I was unaware of this scam

[Beenhad]

I was playing my usual rounds of poker when someone known as "playa73" started chatting me up. After a short chat he told me he wanted to lose $1000 to me. When asked why, he claimed he needed the money in a hurry and cashing out takes longer, than the timeframe he was on, allowed.
So he said he'd lose the money to me and I'd send him $600 and I could keep the $400 as a "thank you" for doing him this favor.

It sounded quite suspect but I thought, "hey if he loses the money to me there is no way he can steal it back. How could this go wrong?"
Sure enough he purposely loses $1000 to me raising big, making folds to a reraise and by letting me know what cards he had. Once I have the $1000 into my account I think, "wow, this guy is serious...". (As a side note: this was on Paradise's 1v1 tables and I in no way affected other players)

So I wire him the money and the next day I can't log into Paradise Poker. I write to them asking "what happened" and they wrote me back saying that I had provided the incorrect address that did not match up with my Neteller account; this much is true, however I only provided the wrong address to try and avoid some of the spam mail I have been receiving from other casinos. All the other information including city, state, name, etc. was correct. So after they receive a copy of my drivers license, utility bill and copy of my bank account statement to verify my info, their security team writes back:

"...The [funds] in your account were deliberately lost to you by a player who had obtained the funds fraudulently, and these funds have been returned to their origin. Your account on Paradise will remain closed.
Regards,
Shane
Paradise Poker Security"

So this guy SOMEHOW defrauded either someone else on the website, or the website itself, out of $1000 and they in turn confiscated the $1000 away from me. After asking them how it could be that this person has an illegitimate $1000 in his account, they replied with their usual pissy-tone that they would not go into anymore detail with me and that they considered the matter closed.

So I imagine I'm screwed and have no real recourse or hope for getting my money back.

Any insight, comments? (Please keep them light on criticism as I already feel like a moron)

[winbig]

Moral of the story:

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

You have no recourse here. What you guys did is against the terms of ANY poker room; online or off. At most, they need to return any balance left in your account *before* you sat down and played with this person.

[edit]But then again, you tried to defraud them...in their eyes, how do they know you won any previous money fair and square?

It really doesn't matter where he got the money, so they really have no reason to give that information out...
[edit]The reason it doesn't matter where he got the money is because you broke their terms...plain and simple.


Last edit: You know chats are monitored, right? I wouldn't doubt it if someone from Paradise was there watching you the whole time.

[Beenhad]

So if he had used the "transfer money" option it would have been okay? Losing purposefully is still bad even when it affects no other players?

People should still know how it is this guy defrauded the website or another person so as to avoid this scam themselves in the future.

Edit: grammar

[winbig]

So if he had used the "transfer money" option it would have been okay? Losing purposefully is bad because it's purposeful even when it affects no other players?

In a sense, yes, it may have gotten by them if he just simply transferred the money to your account.

People should still know how it is this guy defrauded the website or another person so as to avoid this scam themselves in the future.

True, but if they published this information, there would be more people trying to run the scam...if not at paradise, then elsewhere. Not everyone would read that information about the scam. For instance, it's all over the web NOT to give any password out to strangers, but yet you hear about people giving out their passwords all the time.

[silcnlayc]

I posted about 2 months ago about my Neteller account being hijacked at Paradise poker and how Paradise refused to acknowledge that it was at thier site that someone was trying to remove funds from my account.

I guess now they are taking it more seriously that they just might have some kind of glitch in thier software where people can actually steal information of other players from this site, for this is where all the tries to withdraw large amount of funds originated in my Neteller account and I proved this to them and they still called me a liar, even with proof.

Go figure, must be happening a lot more it seems and they are finally taking notice. Shame on you Paradise!

And shame on you Beenhad for even thinking of going along with this kind of con job. If it happened to you where all your funds just dissapeared out of your account, would you be so complecent as you are now about doing what you did?

It sounded quite suspect but I thought, "hey if he loses the money to me there is no way he can steal it back. How could this go wrong?"

You do deserve to lose your money to the shyster for even thinking about joining up with him in this kind of scheme for I believe deep down inside you knew he was trying to pull something but yet, you went along with it which makes you just as bad IMO.

[pokeraddict]

I think the scammer used a stolen credit card (or other stolen deposit method) or someone chip dumped to him that used one. They also may have colluded at another table. He knew he could not get the money out himself since the funds were fraudulant so he had find another way. NEVER allow someone to chip dump to you and NEVER fall for "I'll trade you $x at x Poker Room for $x at x processor". These almost always turn out to be scams where either the Paypal/Neteller money is fraudulant or the poker room money is. Then the poker room thinks you are a scammer too and as you found out close your account and seize your funds.

Fraud is a massive issue at online poker rooms just as I am sure it is for casinos and sportsbooks. Players open up fraudulant accounts and chip dump to their friends or pull this scam posted above to try and get the money out. Even if he had just transfered the money to you Paradise still would have confiscated the funds, they may not have closed your account though. If you had won the money fair and square at a regular table it is extremely unlikely they would have done anything to you even if you won fraudulant money. It is just a part of every day business for the poker rooms. The fact that this money was lost intentionally at a heads up table and chatted about made it an easy decision for Paradise to close your account.

Just ignore the chat and people begging for money or phishing for scams. Play straight up poker and you will not run into issues. It is a shame there is so much fraud in the poker rooms. This causes higher rake and fewer bonuses for us honest players as the rooms have to waste resources on fraud/security departments and eat much of the fraud they do not catch right away.

[NoMouthToScream]

As someone slightly mentioned above, if the roles were reversed and you lost $1000, I bet you would want to get these funds back. The truth of the matter is, these scammers continue to thrive, because someone will eventually bite.

Moral of the story:

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

How true.

[Beenhad]

Great, so I got robbed and I'm the bad guy...

Look, I'm not a bad guy for being duped. Naive and too trusting? Yes, but bad, no.

I'am also glad the person who was originally duped in some fashion got their money back. Nonetheless, it is not my problem that Paradise Poker has a security flaw; they should be the ones who have to eat it for their inept security, not myself or the other victim.

[nafanny29]

Great, so I got robbed and I'm the bad guy...

Look, I'm not a bad guy for being duped. Naive and too trusting? Yes, but bad, no.

I'am also glad the person who was originally duped in some fashion got their money back. Nonetheless, it is not my problem that Paradise Poker has a security flaw; they should be the ones who have to eat it for their inept security, not myself or the other victim.

No sympathy from me either im afraid. The internet is full of scams and you only add petrol to the fire by your greed.

A very wise man once said "You cant con and honest man"

Hopefully you have learnt from this loss and will be less trusting of strangers in the future.

And compared to the vast sums of money some folks lose to scams its a cheap lesson really.

And any pokersite that catches ANY player dumping chips will usually freeze both accounts (Usually for the exact reason that you got scammed with, ie stolen credit cards/fraud)

[nafanny29]

letting me know what cards he had.

Collusion is another reason why you will get your account locked an funds seized by the site.