Tournaments need regulating!

[susanjbo]

Is it me or does anyone else believe these microgaming tournaments are a rip off and are being manipulated by casino operators?

Correct me if I’m wrong!

Free tournaments with a $50 total win basket can have what I’ve seen up to 1000 people playing to try and win the 1st prize of $15. With 100 reload options at about $2 depending on currency used.
Let’s take the loaded game, every time I look at the leader board the first 3 or 4 top rated players have scores between 200000 and 600000.

I*f every player reloaded just once then the casinos get a windfall of over $2000 for a $50 prize pool. Which obviously going by the leader board there are much more reloads than 1000.

What is stopping the casinos themselves, mainly the larger ones to have their own staff sit there and reload games with false accounts to artificially raise the leaders board scores so that unsuspecting players chase a prize pool that’s been raised by staff to milk as much cash through reloads from customers chasing the inflated scores.

Microgaming MUST limit reloads to 2 or 3 max. By allowing casinos to offer unlimited reloads is blatant fraud. Obviously microgaming knows this. If my suspicion has flaws please post here. But my opinion is that this type of practice would work for larger casinos with larger participation numbers.

I understand many casinos are all hooked up to these tournaments. But not all as what tournaments I see on one casino are not there on another. So it’s obvious these tournaments are not connected to all casinos. Which even gives me more suspicion they are created for casinos groups blatant attempt to rip off players through deceptive means.

If I’m missing something let me know please members.

I think all tournaments need regulating, and urgently.

[Roanan]

I have been playing these for a few years and have only cashed once...this is pretty much the ultimate luck fest.

If you really like these tournaments and want better odds...try the ones on River Belle under the 'private' tab. They are site specific, run often and even allow late registration...and I've seen them with as few as 150 people (late night).

[susanjbo]

Oh i dont really play them anymore, once i got a grasp of how they can be manipulated i stopped playing even the free ones. I could be wrong, but with reload options up to 100 times i doubt i am wrong.

[funeral979]

Wow thats crazy. 100 reloads for a $15 top prize! I play at Villento and Rich Reels, which also has a tourney with a $50 prize pool. The top prize is $12.10 and its free with only 2 rebuy options ($2 each)

My best advice to playing any tourney would be to play only the free ones, and register and start playing late. This way you will not be tempted to waste money and pay for a rebuy. Just hope to get that one big hit to grab a winning spot. Doesn't happen often, but its better than paying and chasing the top prizes which if won have usually cost you more than the prize itself.

[just play]

What I don't understand is why can't they have a REAL FREE tourny? With no re-buys? I mean it's not really a free tourny if the only way you can win is to add your own money right?

[Scooter7]

This topic has been discussed previously. Personally, I believe the MG tourneys are complete rubbish that are not dissimilar from outright theft.

Would a group of tournament poker players play in a re-buy tournament where the re-buy money wasn't added to the prize pool? Or would they create an instant outrage stop playing?

It's fine to charge a commission to buy-in or re-buy into a tournament (although poker tournaments usually take a cut only on the original entry fee and don't charge commission on re-buys/add-ons), but keeping all the extra payments for the house is an abomination and in a regulated environment would be stopped immediately.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by susanjbo

Is it me or does anyone else believe these microgaming tournaments are a rip off and are being manipulated by casino operators?

Correct me if I’m wrong!

Free tournaments with a $50 total win basket can have what I’ve seen up to 1000 people playing to try and win the 1st prize of $15. With 100 reload options at about $2 depending on currency used.
Let’s take the loaded game, every time I look at the leader board the first 3 or 4 top rated players have scores between 200000 and 600000.

I*f every player reloaded just once then the casinos get a windfall of over $2000 for a $50 prize pool. Which obviously going by the leader board there are much more reloads than 1000.

What is stopping the casinos themselves, mainly the larger ones to have their own staff sit there and reload games with false accounts to artificially raise the leaders board scores so that unsuspecting players chase a prize pool that’s been raised by staff to milk as much cash through reloads from customers chasing the inflated scores.

Microgaming MUST limit reloads to 2 or 3 max. By allowing casinos to offer unlimited reloads is blatant fraud. Obviously microgaming knows this. If my suspicion has flaws please post here. But my opinion is that this type of practice would work for larger casinos with larger participation numbers.

I understand many casinos are all hooked up to these tournaments. But not all as what tournaments I see on one casino are not there on another. So it’s obvious these tournaments are not connected to all casinos. Which even gives me more suspicion they are created for casinos groups blatant attempt to rip off players through deceptive means.

If I’m missing something let me know please members.

I think all tournaments need regulating, and urgently.

I won't be correcting you on EVERYTHING, because you are mostly right.

Doing the maths of stake money in & prize money out shows these tournaments operate at an average RTP far less than we expect on "lobby" slots. The sit & go maths is simple. RTP is 90%, thus the casino makes $10 for every $100 "wagered" (buy-in). Normal "lobby" slots have an average RTP of 95%.

Looking at the other events, the maths is harder, but it looks like much of the time the casino is aiming for an RTP far LESS than is offered by the "lobby" slots.

As for casinos "manipulating" the tournaments by

.......have their own staff sit there and reload games with false accounts to artificially raise the leaders board scores so that unsuspecting players chase a prize pool that’s been raised by staff to milk as much cash through reloads from customers chasing the inflated scores.

I say NO, in fact they don't NEED to. What they often do though is to offer some of their players a FREE pass into a tournament, and AUTOMATICALLY register them. This WILL inflate the total number of players, but look closely after the close and you will see many of these players never actually played (score of 0). Many others play the first FREE round the casino has given them, and MAY continue if they get a really good start. This may well get MORE players involved, since a free pass might make the player think "might as well play the free bit", on a tournament they would probably NOT have bought in to in the first place.

Take the Grand Slam, and the utter PANIC we are now seeing from MGS to offload the remaining tickets. When it started, it was made clear they COULD NOT BE BOUGHT, but ONLY won by taking part in other tournaments, and promotions. Now, they CAN be bought, first €150, and more recently All Slots are selling them at €75. Golden Riviera (see Casinomeister special promotions) is now giving some away FREE for what appears to be the first 10 new players registering through CM.
The Grand Slam is one tournament where MGS really COULD get their fingers burned The lack of interest MAY be down to the exclusion of US players, with even those having existing accounts reluctant to take part because of the problems they would have in receiving payment if they won the top prize.

When these started, it was strictly ONE entry (buy-in), and a set number of continues per player. More recently, the addition of the rebuy has made these tournaments far more of a moneyspinner, and will make the RTP quite low for the more popular events.
It also creates a situation where "pro" tournament players can BUY their way to the top by using as many rebuys as it takes, leaving the player who just has ONE go, even with all the continues, at a disadvantage.

Before taking part in a tournament, players should bear this in mind, and do a little maths to see if it might be worth their while continuing. This also involves knowing how the SLOT used plays.

With a low variance slot such as Tomb Raider, a good start is getting over 100% back from your coins, and if you are on, say, 150% back it is well worth using continues, as the low variance favours keeping the lead.

For a higher variance slot such as LOADED, it is the rare hits that can REALLY propel you along. 5 "singers" with wild is 3x, and by selecting 12 @ 4x in the free spins (all you often have time for), you can take out the tournament with just ONE hit like this, as it pays over 200,000 coins, hopefully, the continues will give enough for you to remain in front.

I have done this myself a few times, and have always ended up in the top few, if not first.

Originally Posted by Scooter7

This topic has been discussed previously. Personally, I believe the MG tourneys are complete rubbish that are not dissimilar from outright theft.

Would a group of tournament poker players play in a re-buy tournament where the re-buy money wasn't added to the prize pool? Or would they create an instant outrage stop playing?

It's fine to charge a commission to buy-in or re-buy into a tournament (although poker tournaments usually take a cut only on the original entry fee and don't charge commission on re-buys/add-ons), but keeping all the extra payments for the house is an abomination and in a regulated environment would be stopped immediately.

THIS is one of the BIGGEST scams of the MGS tournaments. The entry fees might be artificially low, and many free tickets given out "in secret" to favoured players. However, when a tournament is more popular, more money is sucked in, but NONE of this extra money is distributed as prize money. Most "proper" tournaments, operate on the principle that a fixed percentage of the entry fees raised is used to pay prizes. There may be exceptions where a sponsor underwrites a big guaranteed pot before the entry income is known. This is what MGS have done with the Grand Slam, they have never run this before, yet have underwritten a very large guaranteed pool. Even when it starts, they have no idea what they will make in continues and rebuys.

It will look VERY bad if they cancel it too, because it has already exceeded the published "minimum number of players", and promotion of the event has filled the entire summer season.

[JHV]

It's not just the MGS tournaments where this problem exists, btw.

I've been in debates with other inter-linked multiplayer Slot tournaments where this kind of thing goes on - taking out 50% of the prizepool for the house, whilst promoting the tourney in a manner that suggests to most that everyone is playing for the entire prizepool. Well no, they're playing for 50% of it. 50% is removed from every buyin/rebuy for the House - which, if clearly stated (and I believe it should be), would result in far less entries. Even trying to determine how much is removed from the pot can be an exercise in pure tilt - with CS lying to you at times, or just flat out refusal to tell you how much they remove from the pot.

Fixed prizepool tourneys are a way to print money for the casino, with what I estimate are up to 500-1000% returns on "guaranteed prizepools", at times.

It's a real mess across the board. I'd like to see an online casino step up and start offering poker-style tournaments with transparency.

[klara1968]

Casinos are casinos.Every single one of them wants to have large profits.If they will lose they will be closed.Someone has to pay for the fun we are all having.Why bother with justice in places that ruled by so much money...
IT IS REALLY NOT FAIR TO MAKE ANY CASINO LOSE MONEY..