C2P - you cant get your money back !

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by aodat2

GrandMaster:
I tried emailing them but no replies were given. Totally no reply at all to my email. So, writing to their MD doesn't really help coz they don't even care. If you're talking about sueing someone over 50quids and my $70, there's totally not much use actually. it all totals up to $150 (average) and you're asking us to sue them for that amount? I'd rather just tell my bank about it and let them worry about it with C2P.

Vinyl:
Can you tell me what was your resolution on the problem? What happened in the end? Did they give you back the money or something or did it just disappear into the sunset?


Any other people getting charged like that and having problems with C2P, please do either create a new thread or post here. I'd sure like to get everyone else's view on this.

Thanks!

Persistence paid off in the end, I got the charges back. They then became awkward about deregistering my credit card, so I just let it expire.
I have never used the account since, as I am seeing more and more negative posts about them.
The fact they refuse to respond to E-mails is not good, however, writing to the MD at the address given by Grandmaster (include copies of E-mails that were unanswered) may get some action. It is possible their CS department is the one with the Cyprus address (now removed from the website). I don't know how mere customers are supposed to find their HQ, they do not give the address out. It may therefore shock them that an aggrieved customer has found HQ and is writing to it, and they may take the missing funds seriously.
They have already broken laws by making available an invitation to deposit to a closed account through negligently having the wrong instructions on the website, they could be sued on this basis for the return of the missing £4500 + costs, and will most likely sort it out straight away. They may be less keen to deal with the smaller sums, as they know there is little risk of someone travelling to Germany and employing a lawyer for a few dollars.

I would like to know why they are being allowed to get away with such shoddy service while dealing with client funds, they should have their licence threatened with removal by the German regulators unless they can improve their service levels. They are behaving more like a rogue casino than an eWallet.

[bernynhel]

Don't they have pre-paid Visa debit cards in the EU? If so, I don't see why anyone would use anything else after witnessing the problems Neteller were capable of having and, apparently, now C2P (read: "and their ilk"). OK, Debit card deposits eliminates "instant payouts" and reduces the cash in options to bank wires and checks but hey, since we only play at "accredited" casinos nowadays anyway , at least we know we'll get paid, eventually, right? My Visa debit card cost $9.95, $2 to load up to $5,000 and $1 per transaction and no monthly fees or overdraft charges. I dedicate mine for online commerce and gaming and have never been declined and, since it isn't tied to any bank account or credit line - totally ID-theft-proof. I never trusted C2P. I remember how sketchy they seemed over two years ago - WAY too many idiosyncrasies that were only made known once I had support on the phone and not in the terms. I thought them scary THEN! Couldn't imagine still doing business with them now from the US in light of the current sitch.

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I don't know how mere customers are supposed to find their HQ, they do not give the address out.

It is on the website under http://www.click2pay.de/en/imprint/.

[breakstone]

I had a debit card with them to withdraw funds. It took 7 days to try and get the money. One of their staff told me they didn't have enough money to load the cards. I complained to the german financial transactions authority and click to pay suspended my account. The german authorities investigated and I did get the money eventually.
Click to pay closed my account because I had complained. Dont even bother to use them and dont deposit there. They are frauds and I think just about to go under.

[BigK]

Update:

Thanks for your advice folks.

I managed to speak to Click2Pay last week. I do not understand how the week before when I tried it, it went through to a voice message from a company who "hosted the phone service" who were based in London and this week I reach Click2Pay.

It was no mis dial either. I tried to ring them 2 weeks ago at least a dozen times over 24 hours and each and every time I got the same message (and no I wasn't using any redial service)

The guy I spoke to assured me they were looking into it. I provided screen shots of the form and copies of the filled in form I used at the bank. I also contacted the bank and got a copy of the transaction ID.

I received an e-mail today saying that C2P were looking into it. I replied saying I wanted the funds back by Monday or I would have to initiate legal action.

Their CS simply hasn't done enough. I have contacted my solicitors and they are preparing the initial letter to send to C2P in Germany. I really can't believe it has come to this, but I guess some of the blame has to be apportioned to me for not doing more research on them.

I'll keep updates coming as to progress.
K

[BigK]

I think this about sums up the situation with Click2Pay.

This is the response I have been sent:



Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for contacting the CLICK2PAY Service Team.

Unfortunately, as previously stated, the bank account to which your funds have been sent has been closed.

We thank you for sending as much information as possible to help us locate your funds, but, I have been informed by the cash management team it is not possible to initiate a trace / track from CLICK2PAY. It has been advised, your bank is the only party that can initiate a trace / track on the funds, therefore, our only suggestion is to ask your bank to complete the fore mentioned action.

I have been assured, your funds will 'bounce back' to your account, unfortunately, and we can not give an approximation of when this will occur.

We apologise for this unforced delay in relocating your funds, if and when we have any update, please rest assured we will inform as soon as possible.

Should you have further questions about the information given above, please reply directly to this email, including our original text and ticket number. This will help us to deal with your inquiry much faster.

Please note: CLICK2PAY will never ask you via e-mail to disclose your login details on the Internet or to disclose or confirm your login details via telephone or fax.

Thank you for using CLICK2PAY.

Kind regards

P.Xxxxxx
CLICK2PAY Service Team



Anyone who knows the banking system would probably be aware that any funds sent to a closed bank account would be returned within 48 hours. This situation happened on the 17th September 07. Something tells me Click2Pay are not trying to help me locate this money.

Having done as they asked (prior to recieving this e-mail response) my bank can't trace the funds as they already know where they were sent. Click2Pays bank as detailed on the form on their site.

Suffice to say if I was reading this, I certainly wouldn't deposit via Click2Pay.

I have contacted my solicitors and am taking them to court over this money, it will be difficult with them being in Germany, but I am outraged and it is the principle of their response that will ensure I pursue this matter.

Any advice anyone can give will be very much appreciated.

BigK

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

It is on the website under http://www.click2pay.de/en/imprint/.

Certainly is, but when I tried to navigate there from the main site I found it impossible. It may be there, but it seems not to be linked to from either the main customer or merchant pages.

The phone numbers are completely different from the HQ (different city codes), so there CS must be elsewhere (and I am sure that is where the old Cyprus address comes in).

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by BigK

I think this about sums up the situation with Click2Pay.

This is the response I have been sent:



Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for contacting the CLICK2PAY Service Team.

Unfortunately, as previously stated, the bank account to which your funds have been sent has been closed.

We thank you for sending as much information as possible to help us locate your funds, but, I have been informed by the cash management team it is not possible to initiate a trace / track from CLICK2PAY. It has been advised, your bank is the only party that can initiate a trace / track on the funds, therefore, our only suggestion is to ask your bank to complete the fore mentioned action.

I have been assured, your funds will 'bounce back' to your account, unfortunately, and we can not give an approximation of when this will occur.

We apologise for this unforced delay in relocating your funds, if and when we have any update, please rest assured we will inform as soon as possible.

Should you have further questions about the information given above, please reply directly to this email, including our original text and ticket number. This will help us to deal with your inquiry much faster.

Please note: CLICK2PAY will never ask you via e-mail to disclose your login details on the Internet or to disclose or confirm your login details via telephone or fax.

Thank you for using CLICK2PAY.

Kind regards

P.Xxxxxx
CLICK2PAY Service Team



Anyone who knows the banking system would probably be aware that any funds sent to a closed bank account would be returned within 48 hours. This situation happened on the 17th September 07. Something tells me Click2Pay are not trying to help me locate this money.

Having done as they asked (prior to recieving this e-mail response) my bank can't trace the funds as they already know where they were sent. Click2Pays bank as detailed on the form on their site.

Suffice to say if I was reading this, I certainly wouldn't deposit via Click2Pay.

I have contacted my solicitors and am taking them to court over this money, it will be difficult with them being in Germany, but I am outraged and it is the principle of their response that will ensure I pursue this matter.

Any advice anyone can give will be very much appreciated.

BigK

Click2Pay would be liable as it was them that supplied the information, warranting that it was the correct place to send the money.

It would be easier to take your BANK to the FSA though, since they are also not doing enough as this looks like a possible fraud has taken place with the receiving account, and delay only serves to allow the funds to be taken from that account. If the receiving bank is also in the UK, or even the EU, your complaint to the FSA should include details.
You could also consider making a complaint for negligence to the German authorities, seems it will be the second one in a short space of time. Click2Pay will be forced to rectify the situation so they can close your account.
Try to get their "excuses" in writing, this makes it far easier to prove your case during both the complaint and legal procedures.

Click2Pay might be breaking UK law by taking deposits (as opposed to acting as a secure processor for card transactions through to merchants). Unlike Neteller, they are NOT registered with the FSA even under the lightly regulated E-money issuance rules.

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Certainly is, but when I tried to navigate there from the main site I found it impossible. It may be there, but it seems not to be linked to from either the main customer or merchant pages.

Go to the main page, select English, click on "Imprint" in the bottom right-hand corner of the main page.

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Click2Pay might be breaking UK law by taking deposits (as opposed to acting as a secure processor for card transactions through to merchants). Unlike Neteller, they are NOT registered with the FSA even under the lightly regulated E-money issuance rules.

If they are registered with German (or any other EU) financial regulatory authority, they can operate in the UK.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

Go to the main page, select English, click on "Imprint" in the bottom right-hand corner of the main page.


If they are registered with German (or any other EU) financial regulatory authority, they can operate in the UK.

As I said, hard to find. How the hell would I know that "Imprint" contains their HQ address unless someone told me first.

I am also puzzled by that bit about a LONDON company hosting their phone service. Surely if this was the case there would be a LONDON number to call for us, and an equivalent one for each nation that directed to the London company.
If this London lot are just a call centre, not related to Click2Pay,then they will generally offer only scripted CS, and will be hopeless in more complex cases such as this.

In the case of a closed account, it is not necessarily the case that the money will bounce back. I once changed my bank account from one branch of Lloyds to another, and my salary went to the old one. I was able to retrieve it into my new account myself, it didn't have to bounce back to my firm with me having to get them to repay it to my new account. I would suspect the same has happened in this case, with the closed account having a note pointing to the new one, and the money being forwarded. This could be traced by first complaining to your bank that the funds should have been retrieved because the account it was sent to is closed. If your bank does not manage to get anything done, approach the Financial Ombudsman, who can wring out what happened from the secretive lot at the receiving bank.
If the money is found in Click2Pay's coffers, complain then to the German authorities, as they persistently lied to you about having received the funds.