Neteller Handing Over Customer List?

[Stanford]

I see in a number of places that people now think that Neteller is a foreign account for purposes of filing treasury form TD F 90-22.1. That is one issue.

But another issue is whether Neteller is handing over customer list and activity automatically to DOJ. Do we know for sure how compromised the player's private information is? I know that Neteller is cooperating - but does that mean they are turning over all customer information? Or maybe just for those with frozen funds?

Does anyone have a contact? Seems like if they are disclosing information they would not have a problem telling us that.

Stanford.

[lots0]

In cooperating with the DoJ Neteller has released all information requested by the DoJ (That is full cooperation according the the DoJ and the DoJ has said that Neteller was fully cooperating).

We don't know for sure what information the DoJ requested, because no one is talking. But I think it is safe to assume that the DoJ requested ALL information on residents of America that received any funds transfers from Neteller.

This means everything that Neteller knew, the DoJ now Knows.

Neteller also has a Forensic Accounting Team currently going through all their records. I would assume they have the Forensic Accounting Team there to make sure the DoJ 'requests' for information are fully complied with.

[footdr]

But I went back and read the term and conditions and it says they will release account information when requested by law enforcement or under subpeona, something like that.

I wonder if it is all accounts or only those that have balances.

I closed my account before the doj confiscated the funds.

[Mousey]

From what I remember, the DoJ also subpoenaed major international banks (who apparently rolled over) and also, they've got all these payment processors they've arrested along with whatever info they had .... Too bad nobody tells us nuttin' about just what the DoJ has and wants (if anything) in the way of specific info on players.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Mousey

From what I remember, the DoJ also subpoenaed major international banks (who apparently rolled over) and also, they've got all these payment processors they've arrested along with whatever info they had .... Too bad nobody tells us nuttin' about just what the DoJ has and wants (if anything) in the way of specific info on players.

I would assume the worst, and hope it's not so bad.

While the DoJ may have lots of info, as soon as they start acting on it we will find out what they have.
In order to prove net profit from gambling they need more than the Neteller records, they need to know what went in and out of casinos by other routes to fully assess whether players made a gambling profit.
The most likely use for this information is blackmail against foreign firms who seek to continue to assist US players and casino operators in transferring gambling funds. No firm knows what the DoJ may, or may not have, so they may not take the risk.
When the US activity is reduced enough, everybody still offering services will jump ship as there would no longer be enough profit to outweigh the risks - the US market will then be stone dead, and the DoJ will have scored an historic victory against the internet "Mafia".
After many failed attempts, the DoJ see total victory within their grasp, and they are going to go the extra mile to see it through, even if this means bending a few rules and stepping on toes of foreign companies and governments, not to mention the WTO and EU.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

In order to prove net profit from gambling they need more than the Neteller records, they need to know what went in and out of casinos by other routes to fully assess whether players made a gambling profit.

I believe with the US tax code the burden would actually be on the player to prove losses. And the gross income can still be affected even if wins are completely offset by losses.

[Mousey]

Consider the following... if NETeller and banks and processors and sportsbooks like BetonUSA are all handing over all customer specifics .... and you add that to THIS, we may have more to worry about than taxes.

Nothing like feeling threatened by your own government.

[Stanford]

Originally Posted by soflat

I believe with the US tax code the burden would actually be on the player to prove losses. And the gross income can still be affected even if wins are completely offset by losses.

I think that is right. They could just add up all the inputs to your accounts - and let you prove up the rest.

But surely someone by this time has talked to Neteller to find out exactly what the DOJ has requested they turnover. Surely someone has a contact at Neteller.

Also, what is Navigant doing? I think they are just looking at the transfer - not the whole database. Certainly we should be able to get some clarification. There isn't a law against communicating with the customers.

Maybe Navigant is making sure US players are flagged so that Neteller doesn't use them anymore.

I don't recall PayPal turning over any customer list. I do think they paid a big fine of some sort.

Can no one reach a VP?

Stanford.

PS - Here is an article about the PayPal settlement. I suppose there is a big difference because there where no frozen funds as PayPal had already quite allowing gaming transactions. But they must have had some investigation of a "forensic" nature to arrive at the amount of profits to be turned over. And we never had any blowback back to the customer.

NT should be able to tell us if they are going to be much different than PayPal. Anyone know a VP? Have a contact? Anyone? Bueller?

http://news.com.com/2100-1017_3-5055237.html

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by soflat

I believe with the US tax code the burden would actually be on the player to prove losses. And the gross income can still be affected even if wins are completely offset by losses.

I expect most players who hung on to the bitter end would have a paper loss due to "winnings" being paid by other methods - this could backfire, as the figures from Neteller might show less being withdrawn than might be the case, however, players could easily prove ALL their deposits if it came to an investigation.
In the long term, few will have a net win, and I would expect the revenue to pick and choose who to investigate, so the most likely targets would be the high rollers moving thousands of dollars per week/month etc.

If it came to it, US players could ask all casinos for a complete list of all deposits and withdrawals they have ever made, and it may be wise to be prepared in advance and request these now if not already done. it may come to nothing, but you can never trust the taxman once they get a whiff of untaxed income.

[Stanford]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

If it came to it, US players could ask all casinos for a complete list of all deposits and withdrawals they have ever made, and it may be wise to be prepared in advance and request these now if not already done. it may come to nothing, but you can never trust the taxman once they get a whiff of untaxed income.

I doubt you could get it. I notice you can only go back a few months on the banking screen of microgaming.

I have played at a multitude of casinos.

Stanford.