Neteller Handing Over Customer List?

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Stanford

I doubt you could get it. I notice you can only go back a few months on the banking screen of microgaming.

I have played at a multitude of casinos.

Stanford.

I think MG casinos keep all data offline, although only the current and previous years are online.
Neteller keep everything, and will provide a copy (I complained once about not being able to download the transaction statement, and they said they could send the whole lot in a PDF document).
There may be some casinos that get rid of the data, perhaps where they have gone bust, been sold, or the player hasn't played for a long while.
One can only ask.

[footdr]

I am uncertain why but the IRS regards foriegn bank account to include these ewallets, but you only have to report them, if they have ever had a balance of 10,000 at any given time, that is my interpretation of what I have read on tax sites.

You are required to report all foreign bank accounts.

Does anyone on the forum actually have a foreign bank account from a
REAL bank such as CITIBANK Europe or similar, if so, do you get a statement at the end of the year for income tax purposes. Just curious, as we know we do not get that from ewallets,

What would make paypay different from these ewallets aside for not allowing gambling transactions. ARE paypal accounts considered banking account? I do not think so. Why is IRS considering NETELLER a bank account, we didn't get interest and only used them for funds transfers. When using instant cash we were not even authorizing payment from bank to neteller but authorizing payment from bank via eft, which neteller processes for the merchant, just as EFT deposit, were actually processed for the casinos by citadel. You didn't even need a citadel account for those. You needed a citadel account only if you selected citadel as your deposit method

[GrandMaster]

The reporting requirement is for foreign financial accounts, which would include Neteller in my opinion. Paypal is a US company, not foreign, hence no reporting requirement.

[NASHVEGAS]

Originally Posted by Stanford

I doubt you could get it. I notice you can only go back a few months on the banking screen of microgaming.

I have played at a multitude of casinos.

Stanford.

If your deposits were ultimately debited thru bank accounts or perhaps charged to a c.c. or even phone bill, you can at least total your deposits from bank statements,c.c. statements, and phone bills hopefully to substaniate whatever may be necessary. It will not help meet the absurd (impossible to know) income compliance of the tax law pursuant to gambling(Income compliance ultimately has the most affect on AGI and itemized deducts I assume) but at least you may be able to prove net winnings/losses. Compliance with the income portion of this law is basically impossible but I guess our IRS friends could disagree and make ones situation a living hell..........feel free to correct where I may be offbase.

[Stanford]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

The reporting requirement is for foreign financial accounts, which would include Neteller in my opinion. Paypal is a US company, not foreign, hence no reporting requirement.

The IRS arm that processes the disclosure form told me they were an English Company and needed to be disclosed as a foreign account. That isn't true. As you note, they are an American Company.

I did note where the IRS has issued John Doe Summones to Paypal for customer records. So I guess if they will do it with PayPal, they will be doing it with Neteller. But PayPal communicates about what is turned over and what is not. See story here:

http://news.com.com/IRS+to+search+Pa...3-6060920.html

Note specifics required to get information:

"According to the order, the IRS can review the bank and credit card accounts of PayPal members, providing they meet three stipulations.

One is that a "reasonable basis" exists for believing a person may have failed to comply with IRS laws. A second requirement is the investigation relates to a particular person. Furthermore, the information being sought must not be easily obtained through other sources. "

That's a lot different than just handing over a customer list. I think Neteller should communicate with us officially and tell us what they are doing.

Stanford

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Stanford

The IRS arm that processes the disclosure form told me they were an English Company and needed to be disclosed as a foreign account. That isn't true. As you note, they are an American Company.

I did note where the IRS has issued John Doe Summones to Paypal for customer records. So I guess if they will do it with PayPal, they will be doing it with Neteller. But PayPal communicates about what is turned over and what is not. See story here:

http://news.com.com/IRS+to+search+Pa...3-6060920.html

Note specifics required to get information:

"According to the order, the IRS can review the bank and credit card accounts of PayPal members, providing they meet three stipulations.

One is that a "reasonable basis" exists for believing a person may have failed to comply with IRS laws. A second requirement is the investigation relates to a particular person. Furthermore, the information being sought must not be easily obtained through other sources. "

That's a lot different than just handing over a customer list. I think Neteller should communicate with us officially and tell us what they are doing.

Stanford

Perhaps it is because Neteller are so damn keen to co-operate that the DoJ/IRS have simply "requested" a customer list, even though they have no basis in law to REQUIRE this. If Neteller fall for this in their eagerness to please, then the IRS can go fishing, and will probably catch something worth pursuing that they had no way of catching without the initial "bait" of a customer list. Once they have this "reasonable basis", they can then REQUIRE production of pretty much anything they want.

Our Inland Revenue is nearly as bad, but the rich and their well paid accountants regularly run rings around them and pay far less tax than they shoud, whereas the average person probably pays too much.

On a trip back "home" to Mum, I found out our revenue had been "screwing her over" for the best part of a year. For this incompetence, they had to pay TWO YEARS of back overpayments due to an oddity of tax law I would have probably missed till I was 65, had I not been put to the inconvenience of going through the records rather than playing the latest JF promotion that weekend

[Stanford]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Perhaps it is because Neteller are so damn keen to co-operate that the DoJ/IRS have simply "requested" a customer list, even though they have no basis in law to REQUIRE this. If Neteller fall for this in their eagerness to please, then the IRS can go fishing, and will probably catch something worth pursuing that they had no way of catching without the initial "bait" of a customer list. Once they have this "reasonable basis", they can then REQUIRE production of pretty much anything they want.

Perhaps. But I don't know why they would need that. Navigant should be finding out how much of the Neteller revenue derived from US players transfering funds to Internet Casinos. From that, there should be a fine.

The IRS fishing is something different. Neteller hasn't said anything about that. We should deduce that unless they are asked about specific individuals our records are secure. That's "should".

What I am suggesting is that US players make a concerted effort to ensure that is the case.

The other thing that is possible, is that those with frozen funds have had "their" remittance audited and to that extent personal information has been released. If that is the case, again - Just tell us. But I doubt that was necessary either.

I understand the mess. I don't understand the lack of communication.

Stanford.

[w8n4win]

The problem here is, if you had a win and did not file it on your Income Tax. Your tax return for that year is where you would have had the opportunity to file your losses against the gain. The IRS is not going to say "oh okay, in 2005 you won $5000 that you did not claim, but you lost $5000, so we're cool go ahead and go home". They are going to say you didn't claim the income. You have three years to amend a return, but I don't think you can do it once you are being audited. I am wondering if the safest thing to do would be to go back and amend returns.

[Stanford]

Originally Posted by w8n4win

The problem here is, if you had a win and did not file it on your Income Tax. Your tax return for that year is where you would have had the opportunity to file your losses against the gain. The IRS is not going to say "oh okay, in 2005 you won $5000 that you did not claim, but you lost $5000, so we're cool go ahead and go home". They are going to say you didn't claim the income. You have three years to amend a return, but I don't think you can do it once you are being audited. I am wondering if the safest thing to do would be to go back and amend returns.

Even worse, the system is set up for phantom income. The IRS doesn't like you to net your wins and losses. So they want all the income on Form 1040. And gambling losses as an itemized deduction on Schedule A. If you didn't have enough to itemize, you end up with phatom gains.

Even worse, they don't like to allow losses even on schedule A. They want a diary that gives detail of time and place and have even wanted table numbers for live play.

The potential for abuse of players is pretty large.

I wonder if going back and amending returns might not be the best bet also. Even returns from closed years because think about how the IRS measures income - gross wins. Include phantom income, and they can allege a large understatement.

We need to get Neteller to tell us what is going on. If this is like Paypal, all this speculation may be for nothing. And it should be.

Stanford.