Casino Operators Beware: AKA23

[PrimeCasino]

Though I know that this forum is typically dedicated to the player side of the business, I thought this to be revalent given the recent roast of Prime Casino. In addition, I felt that this was a large enough audience to make those of you who are operators/affiliate managers/casino directors, aware of what's happening.

I am actually in agreement with those of you have deemed some of our terms to be "Draconian". I have had to modify our terms in this manner due to the fact that the lion's share of our traffic over the last two months consisted bonus seekers and advantage players. Though there is absolutely nothing illegal or even immoral about being one of these people, it is simply impossible to remain profitable when the majority of your players are mathematical gamblers.

Having said everything above, I'd like to bring an issue to light that has been plaguing us for several weeks. There exist in our business, rings of advantage, bonus seeker, and mathematical gamblers (I don't like labels but whatever you want to call them...) that are coming from a very short list of affiliates. At the top of this list in our Casino is a man known as: AKA23. I informed the Affiliate Manager dealing with him to ask him politely to stop sending traffic over two weeks ago. Since then, one of his advantage players has taken us for an enormous amount of money.

Again, there is nothing illegal about what this man is doing but I want to make all of you aware to watch out for this guy. He and a few other affiliates (in my opinion) are running a largescale operation sending hordes of bonus seekers to casinos. I can confirm this because I have a friend at another major Microgaming group who was complaining about this very person to me. He has also sent almost the same number of players to them as well. It was then that I decided to say something about it as I would prefer that affiliates like this are banned from all Affiliate Programs as they make business very difficult for everyone.

Though AKA has been polite and candid about sending awful players, he has after two weeks of almost daily emails, refused to take our listing down from his sites.

In summary, he is the main source of our poor quality traffic and our new terms and conditions have been adjusted to prevent us from being cleaned out by his players and others like them.

Lastly, I read some of my posts on the "other" thread and realized that I may have come off a bit snide. I apologize if some of you took me this way but I was dealing with a massive influx of these "players" and so watching advantage players complain about their winnings being withdrawn was not something I was overly sympathetic about. Having said that though, it was wrong to reverse chargeback their Neteller accounts and we will not be doing this again.

Our software has been recently patched to make it impossible to withdraw until the wagering requirements are met. Because of this new feature, we will never again issue a payment that shouldn't be issued. Having said that, a player will never actually be able to break the terms by withdrawing early either.

All the best and Good Luck,

Josh.

[dominique]

So this post is about an affiliate and not players.

I am not going to get into all of this, but it does seem odd to me that he would refuse to take your listing down after you stop paying comissions.

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[happygobrokey]

aka23 is well known and indeed respected here. lucky sonofabitch too! when he made like 50k playing casinos, he decided to put his winnings to work by running an aff site. he just wants others to be able to share in the joy and luck he's experienced. if you pay him on revenue and not per signup, he will not make any money (since his players seem to win a lot) and that's all you can do. he could still send players to you even if it wasn't through banner/links. he runs a bonus advice website and as such he does your advertising for you. he also provides his visitors with sound play strategies for the various bonuses. but i think even if he got cut as an aff from everyone he is linked to, he would still keep the site up minus the clickthrough links, and players could still use his advice. so i guess forum owners and aff site owners really are the "kingpins" behind all the "organized advantage/abuse rings" going around eh?

[Casinomeister]

@Prime Casino

Please don't post real names unless you have permission from the person. Thanks!

[lnspin]

I still cannot see what the problem is when players win , using the bonus you give them , and making the playthru you require . it should not matter if they are mathematical gamblers , it is your bonus and you make the rules .

Hoe about make a term in the t&c no mathematical gamblers allowed or how about this , dont use a bonus if you are going to win ,

You even stated yourself nothing illegal about it , why give a bonus then if you do not want bonus seekers .

[aka23]

Edit -- Double Post

[aka23]

The facts you listed are not accurate. My affiliate agreement with Prime was terminated slightly less than 1 week ago. While the agreement was terminated, it was not until yesterday that anybody mentioned removing links, and only a single email was sent. This is far less than the "2 weeks of almost daily emails" mentioned in your post. I replied to this email and did not hear back from your affiliate manager. I had previously offered to promote tournaments and other ways to improve quality of players, and again I did not hear back.

I have greatly reduced Prime's ranking in my bonus lists due to the incidents related to removing winnings from Neteller accounts with your terms change. I doubt that I have been sending you much traffic since this change. This traffic does not have any affiliate tags and should not appear in your stats. As to why I don't remove all mention of Prime Casino from my sites... my sites are not centered around the size of affiliate commissions. They are centered around accurate information. My casino/bonus lists rank casinos according to who I believe offers the best bonus based on quality of bonus, quality of casino, risk of unexpected problems, and several other factors. The order is not determined by size of commissions.

[dominique]

Originally Posted by happygobrokey

aka23 is well known and indeed respected here. lucky sonofabitch too! when he made like 50k playing casinos, he decided to put his winnings to work by running an aff site. he just wants others to be able to share in the joy and luck he's experienced. if you pay him on revenue and not per signup, he will not make any money (since his players seem to win a lot) and that's all you can do. he could still send players to you even if it wasn't through banner/links. he runs a bonus advice website and as such he does your advertising for you. he also provides his visitors with sound play strategies for the various bonuses. but i think even if he got cut as an aff from everyone he is linked to, he would still keep the site up minus the clickthrough links, and players could still use his advice. so i guess forum owners and aff site owners really are the "kingpins" behind all the "organized advantage/abuse rings" going around eh?

A forum does not make a "ring". A "ring" or "cartel" is criminal and consits of a group of people who use fake ID and all sorts of subterfuge to keep returning to play the same welcome bonuses.

Forums are all about free speech and play strategies are always discussed. Some work, some don't.

What we really need in this industry is a "dictionary" that defines who is who and what is what, so we can all use the same language. There is more confusion about "abuse" and "advantage" and "groups" and what have you than I have ever seen any other place. Threads go on and on about who is what and nothing ever gets into facts because people use the same words and mean different things by them.

Affiliates don't expect to be paid when the casino isn't making a profit. Casinos would drop like flies if they paid affiliates for traffic that loses money for the casino - a double whammie.

It sounds like we are talking about what I call advantage players here, and the only way a casino can avoid them is by designing fool proof welcome bonus T&Cs, or by using retention bonuses instead.

[happygobrokey]

i had a feeling i might have gotten taken seriously there. i used quotation marks! from the coolcat thread, it appears a forum is the hub where all the conspiracy takes place, and then the players swoop on any casino dumb enough to take them. now prime alleges that aka's site is also a "safe haven" for abusive/advantage/nuissance players. so i was just sarcastically asking if casinos really think forums and aff sites are the HQ for these bonus abusers, and the tie that binds them all together into an "organized racket".

[ogpaper]

Wow, I cannot believe you went public like that. I would be surprised if you have any affiliates left, so you may as well just shut down and pack up.

I have had to modify our terms in this manner due to the fact that the lion's share of our traffic over the last two months consisted bonus seekers and advantage players.

Do you think your casino is the only one with advantage-players? Instead of bashing an affiliate for NOT breaking T&C, how about getting some affiliates with good traffic to compensate for the rest?

I would prefer that affiliates like this are banned from all Affiliate Programs as they make business very difficult for everyone.

And this is not the way you will get affiliates to sign up and promote your casino. Buying a software and hiring 5 people to pick up the phone is not how you run a successful casino.

I hope your story will help other affiliate programs and casinos see clearly that the affiliates are a very important part of the business and they can make you or break you (unless you do it yourselves first).

As Dom said - Rev Share Only would ensure a quality flow of traffic to your casino.

it is simply impossible to remain profitable when the majority of your players are mathematical gamblers

Yup, you guys were itching for the big bucks, and no one paid attention to the fact that mathematics could be (and are) employed by the casinos, as well. There is not a single casino in the world which depends on luck to make profits.