eCOGRA needs to make a decision about JACKPOT FACTORY... NOW!!

[The Watchdog]

Sorry, I don´t know how to make nice quotes

Jetset, you said the following:


In fact, from your recent posts you seem more intent on crucifying eCOGRA than the Jackpot Factory people who have direct responsibility for this affair.

If Jackpot Facotry is doing a good or lousy job is not the issue.

WHY IS eCOGRA endorsing so many sites that receive so many complains????

Isn´t their job to make sure that every eCCOGRA endorsed site work by "their book"?

still waiting on someone from eCOGRA to post on this thread.

[jetset]

Oh, come on, Watchdog - this was your "eCogra in an email basically told me: Your complain is not valid. Mummysgold is fine... SHUT UP." ?

You seem to have fired off a "heat of the moment" complaint to the Fair Gaming Advocate, possibly in anger and frustration about alleged response inefficiency from Mummy's Gold.

Why you thought it necessary to add "I really like Casinomeister, he told me to contact you guys. To be honest I prefer Brian" to the end of your complaint eludes me.

You received a polite response explaining the rules, along with an offer of further assistance if you are unable to resolve the issue direct with the casino within the rules timeframe, and you interpret this as: "...really incompetent and lousy?"

I'll take a guess here, but there's a good chance that the FGA fired off an email to the casino anyway asking the manager to get his act together and respond to you.

Is that what happened? Did Darren at Mummy's Gold contact you shortly thereafter?

So how was it all settled in the end, resulting in your exaggerated praise for Darren and somewhat over-the-top criticism of the FGA? Did the casino sort out your problem with it?

And what's all this about - what are you implying with these sort of comments?:

"Casinomeister, I apologize if I am crossing the line here, however this is just not right. Feel free to ban and block my username when ever."

Please don't come the martyr with this sort of crap - you know as well as I do that you are in no danger of such a fate. Just be honest.

"Also, if some crazy tico is reported missing or hurt by unknown reasons in the following days its probably me."

????

"Right now I feel like Charles, the guy who posted his story about the casino on some 7th building located in Costa Rica."

????

[The Watchdog]

I made you write some .... nice

Whatever...

I just feel that you are the typical eCOGRA groupie....

Let me remidn you something my friend. I DIDN´T START THIS THREAD...

I am sorry your feelings were hurt and you are probably with 1000 napkins cleaning your tears since I don´t like their work.

As I said before, I don´t respect their job at ALL. AND I AM REAL HAPPY THAT THIS THREAD WAS STARTED.

I am not here to make enemies or friends. I honestly believe that the online gaming industry should be regulated and proving that not all companies are linked to money laundring or organized crime as some goverments try to advertise.

If you are so proud and believe that eCCOGRA does such a good work, good for you, send them your resume. From your posts here I guarantee you they are happy some one like you is backing them up.

Regardless what you say or what examples you may give, I will not change my position regarding their operation.

If I ever run in to a newbie to the industry I will not tell them to look for eCOGRA´s endoresed sites. Is not that I will mention this either, but I will just tell them to learn of which companies have been on business for a while, have a good reputation and if they want to feel secure about this go to the meister´s site or therx´s site and check the companies featured on these sites.

Lets be friends Jetset... jajaja... is not my intention to change your mind about eCOGRA... is just thay I am really waiting to see a comment from them instead of your comments, which I have noticed show that you really respect their operation. GOOD FOR YOU BUDDY

[Webzcas]

Whilst no public decision had been forthcoming from eCOGRA concerning the fate of JackPot Factory's accredited status. I would like to commend Andrew in actually taking time out to respond to the individuals who have sent him emails expressing their concerns.

However, I can only see one course of action that eCOGRA can take and that is withdrawing the accredited status from All Slots and their sister sites. Failure to do so, will IMO irreversably damage eCOGRA.

[jetset]

Sorry, I don´t know how to make nice quotes

Jetset, you said the following:


In fact, from your recent posts you seem more intent on crucifying eCOGRA than the Jackpot Factory people who have direct responsibility for this affair.

If Jackpot Facotry is doing a good or lousy job is not the issue.

WHY IS eCOGRA endorsing so many sites that receive so many complains????

Isn´t their job to make sure that every eCCOGRA endorsed site work by "their book"?

still waiting on someone from eCOGRA to post on this thread.

"If Jackpot Facotry is doing a good or lousy job is not the issue."

But of course it is the issue - by JF's own admission this reprehensible lapse of ethics and conduct is this casino group management's sole responsibility and therefore the main issue here that needs to be addressed in an effective way. You do not believe eCOGRA is doing that. I do.

"WHY IS eCOGRA endorsing so many sites that receive so many complains????
Isn´t their job to make sure that every eCCOGRA endorsed site work by "their book"?"

Have you ever looked at the number of complaints submitted to the FGA at eCOGRA in relation to the fact that the 75-odd seal holding operations probably handle something like 65 to 70 percent of the total online casino business on the Internet?

The last numbers released by the FGA I think indicated that something like (I'm open to correction here because I can't find the document at the moment) 800 or 900 complaints in total had been dealt with in the last two years. Now imagine what sort of miniscule percentage that might be out of the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of transactions these seal holder groups handle every day. That is likely to increase as more seal holders pass the inspection and probity checks in the future as eCOGRA demands.

It's an interesting perspective that you should seriously consider before making the sort of comments that you have here regarding your apparent perception that seal casinos are producing more complaints than others in the industry.

These groups have made a major commitment to comply with a set of common sense rules and standards that support the player, and that involves a lot of work and therefore expense that lesser operations may find tedious and unnecessary.

Regrettably, instances will inevitably occur where there are errors and misjudgements - not all the eCOGRA's in the world can prevent that - but it can help to redress it. eCOGRA tries to ensure that the casinos have the right standards to operate honestly and efficiently, but there are occasional incidents where these measures either fail or are disregarded, when it has see that the right course is taken and get the casino back to best practice standards.

Where the casino screws up despite this, or where the player feels the casino has screwed up despite this, eCOGRA provides a channel through which the player can pursue an issue he or she has been unable to resolve with the casino.

That availability has meant that eCOGRA gets dragged into just about every issue that develops, and rightly so if it has the authority it claims over seal-holders.

It also means that it gets hammered from every side when a seal casino is at fault through a sort of guilt transference. The management seem to accept that there will always be those who like yourself are aggresively critical, but it does not seem to deter them from plugging away at getting better levels of practice from the casinos carrying the seal.

I think that is fortunate, because they do more good than harm, and the fact that they are the first to be called upon to get involved by the players, the affiliates and even their toughest critics sends a positive message, imo.

I've commented elsewhere on the constraints against the knee-jerk reaction to anything an operation does wrong : "just take away their seal" This is possible, but has to follow a process.

If a decision goes against the casino and the issue has illustrated a lack of compliance, that is addressed by eCOGRA directly with the casino management, and it is noted for re-checking on the next independent review.

Not everyone may be happy with every decision, but it is a formalised system that strives to ensure that matters are dealt with in as even-handed and controlled a way as possible.

[jetset]

Watchdog, I'm afraid I'm definitely not going to waste any more time on trying to explore your problems with eCOGRA after the tone of your last somewhat immature post here, which did not answer my questions and really doesn't leave a lot of room for further discussion.

[GrandMaster]

I'm afraid I can't agree with his statement regarding the directors.

Internationally respected and independent directors of the calibre of Hirst, Catania and Galston are not easy to attract to non-profit boards of directors, and eCOGRA is fortunate to have persuaded men with this level of experience and integrity to run its operational affairs.

They sure did not earn their reputation by their handling of this issue, they seem to be too busy fiddling while Rome burns.

Could you ask Frank Catania how long he would have allowed an Atlantic City casino to display a sign claiming that gambling cures depression?

Regarding the jurisdictional comments, I have to assume that this is GM's dry sense of the sardonic in play. I don't see these as viable alternatives, and I could only imagine what eCOGRA's detractors would make of Costa Rican connections LOL!

The serious point is that either they are either hiding behind the law and procedural issues to gain time (most likely in my opinion), or the law and the contracts with the casinos indeed preclude them from taking swift action. In the latter case the directors and their lawyers are at fault for not foreseeing this, and for not drawing up different contracrs or establishing ecogra in a different jurisdiction. Can you explain to me why suspension of the seals without prejudice pending a full investigation is impossible?

[Sodax77]

Finally i hear all this!!!

I remember, when "jetset" enourage send my timestamp-idea (referring T&C) to Andrew, eCOGRA CEO.

We had nice dicussion with Andrew - About 20 emails, and only once, everything turn dramarically, i told him, how some their clients didn't like my feedback in Public Forum at CM forum, Ezboard, etc,
and how i saw after that, what mean - revenge - spamming, etc, etc by their clients. That's why i removed one contact symbol from my CM forum profile

So i wrote polite and long feedback to Andrew, where i mention all these and then Andrew from eCOGRA finally ask: "Would you like me to make timestamping T&C's an eGAP requirement, or not?!"

I say honestly that if you can reply me and listen me, then it is ok... otherwise you can not use that ever!

And referring his question...I was like, ok, what?! I i kindly asked that he will reply first to my previous questions/reports, but - Hi didn't. I offer my help, etc, and promise to check and tell clients name, who revenge me (no, i'm not kidding) and clients who broke their eGAB rules all the time. But no reply

So finally i get it, they only want some "credits"/Reputation,
etc... and actually he reply once: "I can assure you we put the players first."
and few other lines. But after then, he didn't reply any emails.

So, if this is real organization, then why they lie?! Why they don't care?! Why they don't accept criticism?! Why they don't listen - Players?! Why they don't care, even their clients broke their rules! AND why their clients come first, then players?! And if they don't like your reply, they skip it - ignore it, but still they want more clients, now they have some new 100 Seal campaign, etc.

They don't care... you can write polite letter, you can proof things... but this "organization" don't like to hear truth, because they afraid to lose their clients, "reputation", etc

GOOD BYE!!!

eCogra-ROGUED!!!!!

[The Watchdog]

HEY...

At no point I said that sealed casinos are bringing more problems than others...

I find that comment "immature" as you said before..jajaja

For me is not a matter if sealed casinos are bringing more complains.

On your endless post, you mentioned something about tons of issues and complaints handled by eCOGRA...

There you go... why are their sites giving so much work???? Apparently they have endorsed so many lousy sites that their hands are full of work. Those numbers you provided just brought my respect for them to a much lower level.

If it was my call to endorse a site as a watchdog I will study them from head to toes.. Then I will allow 3 complains... First one fix it, second one: what happened? third complain: get the $%$·"" out of here.. plain an simple.

[Let_It_Ride]

wow what a lot of time and energy being spent on eCORGA, I'd never even heard of them before this incident, why is no one going after the board of directors of jackpot factory for answers? makes more sense to me then asking for statements from a non profit making organisation that has one or two employees.

Hands up how many of us look at the logos/seals on a casino we choose to play at, not many I guess.

Simple you don't like what jackpot factory did (I think it was stupid) move on close your account and go down the highstreet to the next casino, eventually you'll get to number 32 (hint hint), where they'll look after you no bull, no fuss.