eCOGRA needs to make a decision about JACKPOT FACTORY... NOW!!

[vinylweatherman]

I have been trying to tell you that the eCogra approved casinos have the eCogra Board in their pockets. Have any of you checked out the members of the eCogra Board and their affiliations to the approved casinos and software companies? They are all connected in someway that benefits each of them.

eCogra have an opportunity to demonstrate their independence here, what they do will mark them for a long time. They probably want to be absolutely certain that they will not be made to look a fool by the players, or the casino's legal team. This can't be easy.

English law can be slow, but it is wrong to see this as an inconvenience that can be dealt with by using Costa Rican law, a convenience that rogue casinos appreciate!
Saudi Law would have ALL casinos shut down. In Islamic law, gambling is a SIN!

[jetset]

Watchdog - explain this statement please:

"They must have built a fortune on $500 a logo ..."

Regarding your allegation that the FGA turned down your personal complaint, I would be happy to re-visit this with eCOGRA if only to check the veracity of your allegation.

Perhaps you would like to be more specific about what your complaint was about, and how Darren at Mummy's Gold managed in the end to so effectively convert you into a such an enthusiastic supporter of his casino, and such a critic of eCOGRA?

I regret to tell you that I find your statement: "eCogra in an email basically told me: Your complain is not valid. Mummysgold is fine... SHUT UP." unlikely. I personally find that hard to believe.

In light of your generalised criticism of this organisation I have to ask you once again: are you familiar with the eCOGRA infrastructure and how it works operationally? Do you understand the funding for this non-profit outfit? Have you actually visited the site and done some reading?

[jetset]

I would like to address this comment from Grandmaster if I may:

"There is also e-mail. Even if a conference call is necessary, it is hard to believe that the have not had time to have one in 4 days. Remember, this is a major scandal. If they are all so busy with other things, then maybe they should not be directors of ecogra. If compliance with English law is so cumbersome, they could have specified that disputes will be settled under Costa Rican law or Saudi Arabian law or whatever."

Mitch's post, and for that matter my own made earlier here underlines the fact that eCOGRA is a non-profit company with responsibilities and legal liability that goes beyond that of the private individual, and it has to act in compliance with legal advice and its own constitution, as unpopular as that might make it.

Under these sort of constraints I doubt that many of us would be happy as executives of any company with rushing in making statements until everything required was nailed down in terms of company procedures.

The understandably high temperatures here notwithstanding, I can see no immediate practical urgency to make a statement until the above has been achieved.

A bland eCOGRA statement like: "We're watching this situation" or "This is really naughty" which does not take the issue forward would, I suggest, be criticised by some as stalling, trying to sweep things under the carpet, hoping it just blows away or some other allegation of protectionism.

I would rather see sense and fact than speed and superficialty in a statement.

I'm afraid I can't agree with his statement regarding the directors.

Internationally respected and independent directors of the calibre of Hirst, Catania and Galston are not easy to attract to non-profit boards of directors, and eCOGRA is fortunate to have persuaded men with this level of experience and integrity to run its operational affairs.

Regarding the jurisdictional comments, I have to assume that this is GM's dry sense of the sardonic in play. I don't see these as viable alternatives, and I could only imagine what eCOGRA's detractors would make of Costa Rican connections LOL!

[GrandMaster]

I will refer only to the eCOGRA issue here.

Much as I would like them to come out and declare and confirm what scum this group is, they have to be careful.

They could be open to serious legal action by this group if they :-

1. Get it wrong. (not likely!)

2. Reach and declare judgement without demonstrable consideration, which obviously includes giving the group time and opportunity to respond to all allegations. ( I know members are anxious to proceed to the execution but the knitting will have to wait for a while!)

Mitch

As I wrote earlier, I do not expect a final decision in 4 days, but I am yet to hear a convincing argument why ecogra could not suspend the seal without prejudice and make the casinos remove the articles pending a full investigation. Examples show that such a thing is possible even while complying with English law.

If you were in charge of consumer protection (Trading Standards in the UK) and you had pretty strong evidence that some electrical goods were faulty, would you make the shops pull those goods off the shelves and then establish who is responsible, or would you investigate and let people get electrocuted in the meanwhile.

Ecogra's priorities appear to be in the wrong place. They seem to be most concerned about themselves and the casinos, and the players they claim to protect come third. What about people who might get lured to Jackpot Factory by these articles, maybe someone with a gambling problem who reads an article and believes that he lost money because he has been playing the wrong kind of slots, or someone with money problems who reads about how JF slots are guaranteed to make money for him. Will ecogra compensate these people when they lose? Of course not. But they don't matter because they are only players and don't have money to sue ecogra.

[Simmo!]

If you were in charge of consumer protection (Trading Standards in the UK) and you had pretty strong evidence that some electrical goods were faulty, would you make the shops pull those goods off the shelves and then establish who is responsible, or would you investigate and let people get electrocuted in the meanwhile.

I think that's a good point. I agree a quick decision is required, but it needs to be carefully thought through as pointed out previously, so the right decision is more important than the speed thereof, although both should have some priority!

At least there is someone to look at this.

[The Watchdog]

Renegade...

I guarantee you that a lot of people know eCogra is not doing its job as they should, so this will not affect the industry as you think. A lot of sites not being endorsed by eCogra are doing good and a lot of people know these sites don´t need their logo to be trusted.


Jetset...

You might be a big fan of eCogra, which I don´t criticize... However you or no one on this site is my father, uncle or mentor for me to lie. What I said is 100% true and I don´t deny any of my allegations on this thread. Honestly, I have never felt any respect for eCogras job. If someone new to the gambling industry wants to know about respected sites I will honestly recommen them to go either to www.casinomeister.com or www.therx.com. From personal experience I know that both sites will not lie about how the companies showned on their sites. If some site is not doing a good job, they should be reported. If some site is working to provide the best service they should be honored. If you read my posts (some times hated, some times thanked) on other threads you will see that I am 100% honest on a site that behaves and one that doesn´t.

With much pleasure I will check my inbox for you to read the incompetent and lame answer that eCogra sent me. Give me some time, my inbox is full of crap.
When I find it, I will send it to you in a PM, is not my intention to post that email on a thread,regardless how lame it was.

thanks

In addition, I apologize for saying that eCogra is making money of their logos. Is just a figure of speach. Is just that some sites have their logo and do not follow the ¨"eCogra´s requirements to be endorsed".....

[jetset]

I look forward to receiving that, Watchdog but you still have not explained how Darren managed to turn your complaint about Mummy's Gold to eCOGRA into a success for his casino?

I have no problem with you expressing your very clear antipathy to eCOGRA, but making generalised statements that it is useless and lacks integrity, and urging others to "bury" it when you do not appear to be well-informed on the organisation and how it works has to be questioned imo.

Edited to comment on your edit "In addition, I apologize for saying that eCogra is making money of their logos. Is just a figure of speach."

It is a damaging and incorrect figure of speech which I think illustrates that you probably need to do a little more research on the subject.

[The Watchdog]

I found my complain... here is the compalin and the first message sent.

...................

XXXXX,

Tex is on leave today and she will follow up on your dispute first thing Monday morning.

Regards
XXXXXXXXX


From: xxxxx@yahoo.com [mailto: ssssssss@yahoo.com]
Sent: 05 May 2006 12:22
To: info@ecogra.org
Subject: Player Dispute

name »» Mr xxxxxxx
country »» Costa Rica
city »» San Jose
telephone »» 506-xxxxxx
email »» xxxxxx@yahoo.com
casino name »» Mummy’s Gold Casino
username »» tmgdxxxxxxx
date of incident »» 5/5/2006
casino contact email »» support@thepalacegroup.com
software provider »» Microgaming
informed provider »» yes
to whom »» buyi, customer service agent
dispute »» Couldn´t provide good service. Didn´t answer my questions or email. The chat was shut down like 5 times. I won $1200 on ther 1hour free promo so I was checking on the procedure to withdrawal, they never answered. I know there was a deposit required, on the casino software says $25 and on the website says $50... Awful experience with their service and never got an answer on that. Captaincooks casino honors his bonus, which is the same (read it on a review) I would like a prompt answer. I really like Casinomeister, he told me to contact you guys. To be honest I prefer Brian

-----------------

That was my complain... let me find the answer... give me some time

[The Watchdog]

Here it is...

Sorry, I didn´t want to go this far.. however let me tell you that I find this answer to my complain really incompetent and lousy.

Here it is...

----------------------------------------

Dear XXXXX,



I appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and inform us of your predicament. However, according to our rules displayed on our site “Please make certain that at least two weeks have passed since the problem began and all reasonable attempts have been made to negotiate a solution.” I am unable to get directly involved in your dispute at this time as you have listed the ‘Date of Incident’ as 5/5/2006.



If you have not received a satisfactory resolution to your dispute after the above mentioned two weeks have passed, please feel free to contact me directly.

Kind Regards,

XXXXXX
-------------------

COME ON... MY COMPLAIN WAS NOT MADE IN ORDER TO BRING PROBLEMS TO THIS CASINO, however I felt that I was not treated right.

How come they tell me this, and then the guy working for the company tells me that what I said is true and that they are working on solving these problems????

I am really, REALLY DISSAPOINTED of these guys from eCogra and will like to hear their opinion.

Casinomeister, I apologize if I am crossing the line here, however this is just not right. Feel free to ban and block my username when ever.

Also, if some crazy tico is reported missing or hurt by unknown reasons in the following days its probably me.

Right now I feel like Charles, the guy who posted his story about the casino on some 7th building located in Costa Rica.

Honestly I don´t post in this site to bring problems to any one. I really have the wish for all companies to provide good service and to run a professional operation. For what I have seen in my years in this business, a lot of companies are just too unexperienced to be promoted as respected ones.

[jetset]

Grandmaster, I think this is a bit of a stretch:

QUOTE: If you were in charge of consumer protection (Trading Standards in the UK) and you had pretty strong evidence that some electrical goods were faulty, would you make the shops pull those goods off the shelves and then establish who is responsible, or would you investigate and let people get electrocuted in the meanwhile.UNQUOTE

I don't believe this sort of SEO practice, which seems to have been going on for some time can be equated to the clear and immediate danger of an electrical fault or contaminated food or drugs. Therefore if it takes a little while longer to make sure the process is legal and effective before bursting into print I think that is acceptable.

That said, the continued presence of this junk from JF is objectionable, especially in view of the undertaking by the JF general manager that he had given directions that it be taken down. And I would be surprised if eCOGRA has not already insisted that that be done, too. Continued non-compliance will only add to the consequences for JF as the process develops imo.

We will have to agree to disagree on the question of eCOGRA's player-sensitivity. I can only speak from my personal conversations with Beveridge, Hirst, Rees and Galston, perhaps backed by the service that eCOGRA has given to players so far, which gives me a distinctly contrary impression to that which you seem to hold.

In fact, from your recent posts you seem more intent on crucifying eCOGRA than the Jackpot Factory people who have direct responsibility for this affair.