A CHALLENGE to Cipher and Bethug (merged with Seanjohn's "apology" thread)

[BigRed]

Hi Big Red:

I agree with pretty much every thing you stated in your initial post with one exception.

"Anyone who tells you they have a betting system is being dishonest with you."

That's a pretty broad statement. I wonder how in the world I would have ever learned how to count multi-deck Blackjack without having sent Jerry Patterson the money for his course to begin with. Maybe I could have just thought about it for a while and dreamt it up. I know damn good and well the Cipher program would never have been developed had I not sent Jerry Patterson that money and I didn't know him from nobody.

Lastly Red, have you ever heard of such people as Stanford Wong, Kenny Uston or Eddie Olsen, everyone of them contributed greatly to expanding the knowledge of Blackjack players throughout the world. But the funny thing is I can't think of one of those individuals who didn't get paid up front. I think a little bit of common sense needs to be applied in making such statements and/or even decisions of that nature.

Have a good one and welcome to the Forum.

Sorry.


Maybe, I made too broad a statement here. I don't consider counting cards as a "betting system" . Making a bet, once again over time, when you have a 2-3% advantage is a winning proposition. Just as making a bet with a negative expectation is going to end up a loser.

In todays world of internet scams/cons i don't think i could give anyone money up front for an unproven system. Unless it was a well known/repsected person such as you mentioned before. Of course, at one time these guys were unknowns also. I'm not saying your system is a scam as i have no idea what its based on. I would love to find a cheating casino and be able to use their own software against them.

[bpb]

I would love to find a cheating casino and be able to use their own software against them.

Why would a casino cheat in an exploitable way? Maybe they can't think of any way to cheat that's not exploitable.

Here's one ... when the dealer draws a bust card, discard it and give the dealer the 2nd card.

Here's another ... when the current bet size > 4x average bet over the last 10 hands, give the dealer 2 face cards 27% of the time, else deal normally.

Seems kind of impossible to exploit cheats like these.


Maybe I'm just smarter than all those evil casino masterminds out there.

[BigRed]

Standford, i been beating the house online and off line. Also standford, you need to come to los angeles, where u can be the house aka banker.

Standford when is it going to get me. didit get me in vegas this pass week, nope.

Also just the few people i help are making a profit, when will it get us .

Them % are base on computer play, humans dont play or act like oneway.

noboy sits down and play 300000 hands at one time, so that statics dont count.

"The difference is: if you say your system is exploiting rigged on-line software then it's a possibility - if it's supposed to work on fair games then you and Bethug are simply delusional (but I'm still glad you're making money)."

my bank account is not delusional the people i help are not fake, the money i make is real. Pure haters, i am done with this today

I'm sorry Bethug, but you a just plain misinformed. It doesn't matter if you play 300000 hands in one session or 5 hands a day until you reach 300000. Its the same. The stats are all that matters. The longer you play, the more hands you play, not in any one session, but all of them combined the closer you will get to the expectation.

As far as people playing different from computers. That is true. Many people make mistakes in their play and have a larger negative expectation. Basic strategy tailored for the specific rules of the game are easily found on the web and should be followed. Playing hunches or feelings only cost you money in the long run. Just as in my online poker experience some people will call your 4x BB raise with Q5o when you hold AA. Sometimes you will lose. However, when they do call i've made money even if i lose the hand.

You are just being results oriented. Just because i win or lose a hand has no bearing on if i played it correctly.

[Stanford]

I will not post anymore on this. I am, as I write this setting a calendar reminder in my Blackberry for November 29, 2005 to come to this thread and post with how much I have won, how much I have lost, and whether I am still retired doing what I am doing. Until then I say to this thread bye bye.

It might be helpful to you if you keep track of your total action and total results by software. And some idea of your average initial bet. Then your results can be better evaluated.

Stanford.

[BigRed]

Why would a casino cheat in an exploitable way? Maybe they can't think of any way to cheat that's not exploitable.

Here's one ... when the dealer draws a bust card, discard it and give the dealer the 2nd card.

Here's another ... when the current bet size > 4x average bet over the last 10 hands, give the dealer 2 face cards 27% of the time, else deal normally.

Seems kind of impossible to exploit cheats like these.


Maybe I'm just smarter than all those evil casino masterminds out there.

So whats your point?

Why take the last line of a post and make into something else?

I don't believe any of these systems being talked about are long term winners.

However, if through changes in the software, there was an unintended flaw i could exploit then i would without remorse.

[Stanford]

So whats your point?

I think he just wanted to remove hope from those that might meander down that particular path.

I do remember one glitch in how surrender was programmed, but a betting method wouldn't make any difference. It was fun though.

Stanford.

[bethug]

BigRed,what matters is the money i am making betting casinos time after time, If you dont believe me put your money up.

I have bet every major software provider out there. I showed my hood 3000 system bet two differnt casino over week time. Time after time

Simple, my students are doing very well.

[bpb]

So whats your point?

Why take the last line of a post and make into something else?

I don't believe any of these systems being talked about are long term winners.

However, if through changes in the software, there was an unintended flaw i could exploit then i would without remorse.

There are several people on these boards who believe that their systems are long term winners because they are exploiting either flaws in the RNG or loopholes in the casinos cheating mechanism.

I was merely thinking aloud as to why a casino would use a cheating mechanism with a loophole.

I also am not sure why the online casinos would not be able to create a sufficiently random RNG. The online poker rooms seem to have done a good enough job. Then there's the issue that not only does the RNG have to be flawed, but that you have access to enough information during your playing sessions to come to a useful conclusion on that flawed RNG

Just as in my online poker experience some people will call your 4x BB raise with Q5o when you hold AA.

Well duh. Q5 completes every 4-straight except 789T. AA only completes 2345 and KQJT. I'll take Q5o any day.

[BigRed]

BigRed,what matters is the money i am making betting casinos time after time, If you dont believe me put your money up.

I have bet every major software provider out there. I showed my hood 3000 system bet two differnt casino over week time. Time after time

Simple, my students are doing very well.

I tell you what, You give me your system. I will start with 1k. I will post my results here once every week for 4 months. If i do not have a losing session i will pay you for your system and transfer you all the winning it generates.

If i lose you give me 5k for wasting my time.

[Stanford]

Well duh. Q5 completes every 4-straight except 789T. AA only completes 2345 and KQJT. I'll take Q5o any day.

Is this tongue in cheek? Sometimes I can't tell with posters.

From Ed Miller's book re pocket pairs AA and KK:

Monsters. These two are the best in hold em no matter what the situation. They play well in shorthanded and multiway pots. They play well in passive games and in aggressive ones. .... You should almost always raise and reraise with these hands no matter the action.

From Ed Miller's book re junk off suit hands which includes Q5 offsuite:

Do not play them... You will frequently see opponents play them, but they are rarely porfitable. Small steaks games are usually loose, where weak offsuit hands are at their worst...

Stanford.