A CHALLENGE to Cipher and Bethug (merged with Seanjohn's "apology" thread)

[seanjohn]

Dear Cipher
Ain't that funny! I swear to God I knew you were gonna screenshot me.
What else could you have done?
LMAO!!!

But what have you proven? That my facts were immediately lost validity after I promise to tell each and every newbie about it? Look how helpless you are now. Nobody will help you. Why? Because everything I have said is true and after I have removed my bad manners they have nothing, absolutely nothing to attack me at. So they would rather shut up than make a fool of themselves.

My $500 is still waiting, sir.

(And let's watch how you ignore me again...)

[cipher]

I'm sorry Eek, this is piffle. Cards do not have memory. That you can somehow "force" the software into dealing you good cards, having received bad cards previously, on the basis that continued bad cards "push the statistical probability of the session even further into a corner" is absolute nonsense.

My God Caruso. For the last time it has nothing to do with bad cards or good cards or anything of the sort. The Cipher program is nothing more than a tool that records trends in realtime. It's the Player's job to:

1) recognize a favorable trend. and 2) to capitalize on those trends. What is so damn difficult to understand about that?

Betting systems, online or terrestrial, cannot turn a negative expectation game into a positive one. This subject doesn't require discussion, it is a long, long established and proven fact.

All this negative expectation this and standard deviations that is absolute nonsense developed originally by the casinos themselves and consumed by the players as though it were gospel. Give me a break.

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Kenny Uston? Ken Uston was arguably the most famous blackjack player ever. His innovative blackjack team play techniques took millions off the Las Vegas blackjack tables before they were detected by the casinos. Player, Author, Instructor, Jazz Musician, and gambling raconteur, Kenny was a great guy to hang out with.

Brought up in a middle-class New York City household, Ken Uston graduated from Yale with the highest honors. At the age of 31 he was earning $42,500 a year plus many fringe benefits as a Senior Vice President of the Pacific Coast Stock Exchange. But he gave it all up and dropped out of the corporate world to play professional blackjack. From article written by Jerry Patterson

There were more than a few "scoffers" back in the mid 80's as well but I'll guarantee you one thing that group didn't include the casinos after having been ripped for millions.

If you believe you can change the odds with a betting system, short term or long term, you are a fool.

No Caruso, I personally witnessed some of Kenny Uston's brillance then and I know damn good and well that none NONE of these on line casinos have a clue about how a true random number generator operate. Moreover anyone that believes these casinos are running true random number generators are fools. Have a good one.

[seanjohn]

Moreover anyone that believes these casinos are running true random number generators are fools.

Now THAT I agree.
Cipher, maybe I should tell you why I pick on you so much.
I got a VERY good friend who knew absolutely nothing about gambling, then one day he met up a guy in college who told him he got a system to beat the casinos. Need not I say, they lost everything and my friend was in deep $hit. He had to sell his car to pay off his debts. I lost his friendship as although he didn't say it, he somehow blamed me no lending him money so he could chase he losses back.

Cipher
All I ask is that you tell me why you need clients if you really got a system that beats casino's RNG. I mean, if you could really convince me maybe even I would like to sign up your client list.
Have a good one.

[mucullus]

It's the Player's job to:

1) recognize a favorable trend. and 2) to capitalize on those trends.
What is so damn difficult to understand about that?

In my opinion it is difficult to understand why online blackjack should develop any trends and not be subject to a complete random walk. Even in the case online casinos run an exploitable rng (and this condition isn't fulfilled by a casino not running a "true" rng) a sample size of a few hundred hands could rarely provide useable trends.

Maybe trend analysis works with stock prices, but not because they underlie a "natural" trend, but rather because people who believe in technical analyis follow and MAKE the trends themselves (self-fulfilling prophecies). Of course this won't work with blackjack.

[cipher]

In my opinion it is difficult to understand why online blackjack should develop any trends and not be subject to a complete random walk. Even in the case online casinos run an exploitable rng (and this condition isn't fulfilled by a casino not running a "true" rng) a sample size of a few hundred hands could rarely provide useable trends.

Maybe trend analysis works with stock prices, but not because they underlie a "natural" trend, but rather because people who believe in technical analyis follow and MAKE the trends themselves (self-fulfilling prophecies). Of course this won't work with blackjack.

Hi McCullus:

I've attached a clients session from yesterday of 102 hands. For me this strand is absolutely loaded with trends that I used in playing the session. The trends themselves are far from being hidden, it's just a matter of reading them. It seems to work quite well for my Blackjack purposes. Have a good one.

[cipher]

Now THAT I agree.
Cipher, maybe I should tell you why I pick on you so much.
I got a VERY good friend who knew absolutely nothing about gambling, then one day he met up a guy in college who told him he got a system to beat the casinos. Need not I say, they lost everything and my friend was in deep $hit. He had to sell his car to pay off his debts. I lost his friendship as although he didn't say it, he somehow blamed me no lending him money so he could chase he losses back.

Cipher
All I ask is that you tell me why you need clients if you really got a system that beats casino's RNG. I mean, if you could really convince me maybe even I would like to sign up your client list.
Have a good one.

I’m going to respond to you one time and only one time. Not because I like you or even because I’d even consider having you as a client, but because you’re probably the most arrogant, rude and juvenile person that I’ve ever come across and you need to know it. Your ability to make wide ranging and totally false allegations about someone you know absolutely nothing about is nothing short of mind boggling.

First off, you have no idea at all as to what’s even involved in the Wiz’s Challenge and I’d suggest you do some serious research on that issue before you run your mouth again about it.

For the record, none of the clients that I play for (to my knowledge) are even members of any of the various gambling forums and they certainly weren’t harvested (or so to speak) from any of the gambling forums including the Casinomeister website and/or the Winner on Line website. Any information that you think you might have to the contrary is patently false and had better be checked thoroughly.

Lastly, every one of my clients have come to me as a result of word of mouth referrals from other clients that I’ve successfully played for and that I continue to play for year after year. Though I’ve given probably dozens of programs away to various members of the Casinomeister website, I’ve only charged one of those individuals a fee.

It’s been an absolute pleasure in teaching that one individual what I know about reading trend analysis and that one individual, as a result of some very hard work and discipline has flat kicked some serious ass and made some serious money in using Cipher and he or she didn’t let all the standard deviations and all the other BS get in the way of doing that. If that person chooses to reveal their identity, then that’s fine and good, but I will not be revealing that person’s identity.

[bethug]

seajohn, thanks
cause of you i have 11 new emails asking me about hood 3000
If you keep up the good work , i might need to send you a check

[bethug]

before i go and lay down, the hood 3000 system tore vegas up.

sean you wasting your time , cipher dont have time to bother with you

[mitch]

No Caruso, I personally witnessed some of Kenny Uston's brillance then and I know damn good and well that none NONE of these on line casinos have a clue about how a true random number generator operate. Moreover anyone that believes these casinos are running true random number generators are fools. Have a good one.

Cipher

I don't mean to be disrespectful and accuse you of knowingly misleading people. I know that you are very well regarded on this forum and have helped quite a number of people in casino disputes in the past

However there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of your posts that I cannot get my head around.

If it is true that your software can predict even to a minor degree the future play based on past play why are you posting the fact on a public forum?

For the truth is if I could constantly generate even a 1% advantage over the casinos I would be a multi - millionaire within a year. Why then would you post on a public forum? This would only alert the casinos that there was a problem with their software and cause them to look for a solution.

Also seeing that if what you say is true then you must be a multi -millionaire yourself, unless for some reason you restrain from exploiting your breakthrough. (Do you feel sorry for the casinos?)

You would have to be an eccentric to display this sort of behaviour and from the overall tone of your posts you do not appear to be so.

Can you please explain this dichotomy at the heart of your posts?

Mitch

"win don't gamble"

[cipher]

Cipher

I don't mean to be disrespectful and accuse you of knowingly misleading people. I know that you are very well regarded on this forum and have helped quite a number of people in casino disputes in the past

However there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of your posts that I cannot get my head around.

If it is true that your software can predict even to a minor degree the future play based on past play why are you posting the fact on a public forum?

For the truth is if I could constantly generate even a 1% advantage over the casinos I would be a multi - millionaire within a year. Why then would you post on a public forum? This would only alert the casinos that there was a problem with their software and cause them to look for a solution.

Also seeing that if what you say is true then you must be a multi -millionaire yourself, unless for some reason you restrain from exploiting your breakthrough. (Do you feel sorry for the casinos?)

You would have to be an eccentric to display this sort of behaviour and from the overall tone of your posts you do not appear to be so.

Can you please explain this dichotomy at the heart of your posts?

Mitch

"win don't gamble"

Hi Mitch:

I've heard this same song and dance now for better than six years now. The fact of the matter is this. The casinos couldn't do anything to change my winning patterns even if they wanted to. Unless of course they removed the numbers and spots from the cards and then they'd have no game at all. Moreover, when I play for clients the casinos have no idea that I'm even playing. Have a good one.