A CHALLENGE to Cipher and Bethug (merged with Seanjohn's "apology" thread)

[Vesuvio]

I agree it was a highly insulting post.

Anyway, for what it's worth I thought I'd respond (despite almost never having played a system) - I think there is a possibility a system will work on the entirely plausible basis that on-line casinos are rigged. This seems to be behind Cipher's approach, if not Bethug's.

1, Why would you need a boss/client when you have an edge in online gambling?. To have a steady income & insurance against the highly likely scenario that casinos will change at some point to nullify the strategy. Also, even if you have a successful system there's always going to be a limit to the amount you can make in any space of time (depending on the risks you're willing to take and how scaleable the system is). Not to mention you might want to get out and meet people

2, Why aren't you banned by online casinos?
Maybe they are from some, but casinos are highly unlikely to ban players who play without bonuses and make decent bets. Almost all systems are a huge long-term money spinner for the casinos, so they're not going to ban someone using one lightly.

3, Loopholes don't exist, period.
Not true - casino bonuses are one such loophole. The casinos allow it because overall they generate more revenue. In the same way they may have software which one or two people can work out how to crack but which more than makes up from that by the amount it takes (steals, if you like!) from others.

4, Why wouldn't you do it secretly but instead going about telling everyone?
Not really sure of the answer to this - Cipher presumably gets some tempting offers from investors. At the same time he provides some interesting data for the rest of us.

5, Why up to this point none of you have really put your strategy at the table?
Well, this loops back to question 4. It really would be madness to post full details of a successful system.

[bethug]

I been having a long running challenge for over Three years, to any flat bettor. i have shown over two weeks, how my system bets the casino.
you can take a look its free. There no way in one session i would play 150000 hands, also if i sit there and play all my winnings back i would be a fool.

After the holidays, someone please put your money up I will not waste my time for free. If you dont think my system work. Put your money up. human test, i am from the hood, i dont understand letting some computer symlater run a bunch of hands, which know way in hell tells me , the symlater can play like i do.

Caurso why dont you put your money up.

[universexf6]

I been having a long running challenge for over Three years, to any flat bettor. i have shown over two weeks, how my system bets the casino.
you can take a look its free. There no way in one session i would play 150000 hands, also if i sit there and play all my winnings back i would be a fool.

After the holidays, someone please put your money up I will not waste my time for free. If you dont think my system work. Put your money up. human test, i am from the hood, i dont understand letting some computer symlater run a bunch of hands, which know way in hell tells me , the symlater can play like i do.

Caurso why dont you put your money up.

Hello, Bethug. This is universexf6. It is my pleasure to talk to you here for the first time. Since I am interested in any betting systm available, please teach me where I can get in touch with your system on the internet. I am most delighted to see your site/programme/( or whatever it is ). Also excuse me in advance my English is not as good as Americans since I am a Japanse.

Regards

[Vesuvio]

I been having a long running challenge for over Three years, to any flat bettor. i have shown over two weeks, how my system bets the casino.

I really don't want to get into this pointless discussion... but it's absurd to 'challenge' a flat bettor. No-one's saying flat betting is 'better' than progressive betting. If the casino's fair you'll lose the same percentage long term either way (probably more actual money with progressive betting because your stakes become higher). Any half-sensible progressive system is odds on to win in the short term, which proves absolutely nothing. Unfortunately it means scam artists retain a degree of plausibility & casinos earn lots of money from the gullible.

[bethug]

Vesuvio, please explain , my runs for over a week at con and micro and casino365, u can see the screen shots. Using my sytstem. Please explain it.
Do you want me to do it again, all i ask is if it dont work, call me on it, put your money out there. All i am saying.

88 dollars to 13000
100 to 3000
on and on and on
10 bucks to 1400

explain it ??? please get your computer out,something

[Vesuvio]

Vesuvio, please explain , my runs for over a week at con and micro and casino365, u can see the screen shots. Using my sytstem. Please explain it.
Do you want me to do it again, all i ask is if it dont work, call me on it, put your money out there. All i am saying.

88 dollars to 13000
100 to 3000
on and on and on
10 bucks to 1400

explain it ??? please get your computer out,something

Bethug, I haven't seen any new screenshots you may have posted recently, but the old ones always just showed a few hands where you haphazardly chased your losses and were successful. On another day you'd have lost the big bets and gone bust.

If you can guarantee always to turn 88 into 13000 and prove it, say 10 times in a row, I'll bow down to you Otherwise I'm inclined to think you've just had a lucky run as we all do at online casions. I once turned $2.5 into $2102.5 in half a second, but I'm not claiming it as a system. Negative progressions are tempting as you win most of the time - the problem is the other times...

Besides which - it's odd that you always claim your system is about making a small profit and getting out quick (say a 10% profit), but then you only want to post the times when you ignored that system and kept on gambling.

[bethug]

I didnt say i could trun 88 dollarrs into 13000 everytime,
But what i can do is win 200 dollars a day, i think if i should my system playing at 4 differnent casino over a week, winning everytime is more than enough proof.

I was showing to you haters you can bet the casino over and over,I also say call me out. Everytime someone call me out i perform.


If you dont think my system work, put your money up, i am done with all you players haters for now. have a nice turkey day

[mitch]

I really don't want to get into this pointless discussion... but it's absurd to 'challenge' a flat bettor. No-one's saying flat betting is 'better' than progressive betting. If the casino's fair you'll lose the same percentage long term either way (probably more actual money with progressive betting because your stakes become higher). Any half-sensible progressive system is odds on to win in the short term, which proves absolutely nothing. Unfortunately it means scam artists retain a degree of plausibility & casinos earn lots of money from the gullible.

Spot on Vesuvio.

However there is some possible rationale behind Bethugs system.

I believe that Bethug dips in and out of games on a regular basis and switches games especially if he starts to lose. ( I think that is right isn't it Bethug? ).

Now if I was a casino owner and had the ability to adjust the software but didn't want to actually cheat the player by reducing the overall payout. I would definately arrange for the early part of a new betting session to be lucky for the player and recover the money later in the session.

There is a very well observed phenomenom amongst gamblers that early success draws them in and causes them to bet more in the long run.

Bethug would be exploiting this behaviour.

Actually of course I think this is bollocks as someone like Cipher with his tracking software would spot this trend eventually and then take the casino down bigtime.

Nope on second thoughts if I was the casino I'd play fair and let the house edge deliver my profit with no risk.

Mitch

[bethug]

correct mitch

[jetset]

Quote: But I most definitely object to the manner in which they were challenged. Unquote

I agree. SeanJohn has an unfortunate attitude at times and this post typifies it. I have nothing personal against the guy, but perhaps he should read over his posts before he hits the "submit" button.