A CHALLENGE to Cipher and Bethug (merged with Seanjohn's "apology" thread)

[cipher]

I tell you what, You give me your system. I will start with 1k. I will post my results here once every week for 4 months. If i do not have a losing session i will pay you for your system and transfer you all the winning it generates.

If i lose you give me 5k for wasting my time.

Geesh Red, don't you think you'd be a bit tempted to lose under that scenario. And my tongue is in cheek. Good dialogue. Have a good one.

[nafanny29]

Well duh. Q5 completes every 4-straight except 789T. AA only completes 2345 and KQJT. I'll take Q5o any day.

Quote of the day

I am guessing you dont play poker because AA has made me more money than any other hand (According to my 30000 hands in my pokertracker)

AA dealt to me 128 times net win 634 units (won 88 times)

Q5o dealt to me 296 tmies net loss 30 units (played the hand 60 times from BB and occasionally SB in unraised pot) won 4 times!!!!

[bpb]

Is this tongue in cheek? Sometimes I can't tell with posters.

Although there are people who think AKo is better than AKs because it can make a flush in 2 suits, I doubt there's anyone who truly believes that Q5o is better than AA. I just thought I'd try making an asinine statement and then try to back it up with some ludicrous defense to see what it felt like.

From Ed Miller's book

That book is too good.

[nafanny29]

Im releaved to hear that. Although there are many people out there that will go to the river with ANY 2 cards

And the VERY spooky bit... I just started my evening session on interpoker, posted the blind straight away and got dealt... Qh 5s. Unbelievable... and the flop was Q52 and.. I can now say ive won 5 times on Q5o. (only $5.25 pot everyone folding to my turn bet.. basterds)

I am still sitting here in disbelief I really am

[sw2003]

I tell you what, You give me your system. I will start with 1k. I will post my results here once every week for 4 months. If i do not have a losing session i will pay you for your system and transfer you all the winning it generates.

If i lose you give me 5k for wasting my time.

Yup there is nothing to stop you from deliberately losing and therefore winning that 5K! What a deal! I will do that too! You might not even lose all 1K deposit that you provided in the first place. Even if you blow all 1K, you still have a guaranteed winning of 4K!

[caruso]

(Working from a foreign computer whose keyboard is a mystery to me. Sorry for the mess.)

Originally Posted by caruso
I'm sorry Eek, this is piffle. Cards do not have memory. That you can somehow "force" the software into dealing you good cards, having received bad cards previously, on the basis that continued bad cards "push the statistical probability of the session even further into a corner" is absolute nonsense.

My God Caruso. For the last time it has nothing to do with bad cards or good cards or anything of the sort. The Cipher program is nothing more than a tool that records trends in realtime. It's the Player's job to:

1) recognize a favorable trend. and 2) to capitalize on those trends. What is so damn difficult to understand about that?

Betting systems, online or terrestrial, cannot turn a negative expectation game into a positive one. This subject doesn't require discussion, it is a long, long established and proven fact.

All this negative expectation this and standard deviations that is absolute nonsense developed originally by the casinos themselves and consumed by the players as though it were gospel. Give me a break.

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Kenny Uston? Ken Uston was arguably the most famous blackjack player ever. His innovative blackjack team play techniques took millions off the Las Vegas blackjack tables before they were detected by the casinos. Player, Author, Instructor, Jazz Musician, and gambling raconteur, Kenny was a great guy to hang out with.

Brought up in a middle-class New York City household, Ken Uston graduated from Yale with the highest honors. At the age of 31 he was earning $42,500 a year plus many fringe benefits as a Senior Vice President of the Pacific Coast Stock Exchange. But he gave it all up and dropped out of the corporate world to play professional blackjack. From article written by Jerry Patterson

There were more than a few "scoffers" back in the mid 80's as well but I'll guarantee you one thing that group didn't include the casinos after having been ripped for millions.

If you believe you can change the odds with a betting system, short term or long term, you are a fool.


No Caruso, I personally witnessed some of Kenny Uston's brillance then and I know damn good and well that none NONE of these on line casinos have a clue about how a true random number generator operate. Moreover anyone that believes these casinos are running true random number generators are fools. Have a good one.

---------------------

???

LOL, where did that explosion of aggression suddenly come from?? My post was addressed to Eek.

"All this negative expectation this and standard deviations that is absolute nonsense developed originally by the casinos themselves and consumed by the players as though it were gospel. Give me a break...Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Kenny Uston?"

Yes, I believe I have. He was a famous counter, whose profits were derived exclusively from knowledge of - amongst other things - standard deviation, expectation and other such nonsense developed by the casinos.

Or is it all a lie? Was Uston a "trendist", cunningly disguising himself and his teams as counters exclusively for the purpose of getting themselves mass-barred and ending their careers?

At this point in time I can safely say I´m ready to read anything. This is a very bizarre turn.

[Dolphin]

I have a question to winning system players. Let's toss a coin. You can guess heads or tails. If you guess correctly and have wagered for example $100 I'll pay you $199. If you lose I get your $100. Of course your betting amount can be whatever but I'll always pay you with that ratio. Can you beat me?

[cipher]

I have a question to winning system players. Let's toss a coin. You can guess heads or tails. If you guess correctly and have wagered for example $100 I'll pay you $199. If you lose I get your $100. Of course your betting amount can be whatever but I'll always pay you with that ratio. Can you beat me?

Hi Dolphin:

I'm assuming that I'm one of the "system players" your question is addressed to, if not forgive me. But my answer to your question would be no as I havn't got the time or the inclination to figure it out. Have a good one.

[bewitch]

What a crazy thread. Well, it's kind of entertaining by now. Personally, I respect Cipher for what he had done and is doing now. Most of us, including myself, like to agrue things we don't really know or jump into the discussion too qucikly. But I guess that's the power of a public forum. My head is spinning by reading it but I sure learn something interesting.

Hope you all had great Thanksgiving (besides the traffic)! Now Merry Christmas and Happy New year!!!

[bethug]

I guess we trowing money away.Since no one is beating the casino.