Nightmare screenshots

[jerseyguy11]

that certainly sucks caruso. but dont feel too bad.

I was playing on a casino rewards casino about 3 weeks ago (zodiac casino). I deposited about 2,400 that I had just won from another casino. I built it up to 4k in about 10 minutes playing blackjack betting around 100-200 a hand. My next 4 bets where 1k (500 on 2 hands), 1k (500 on 2 hands) and 2k (1000 on 2 hands). I wish I saved the screenshots but nearly all of the hands I had like 19 or 20, each time the dealer had no lower than 20 which makes me really wonder. Maybe something does trigger when you bet above a certain amount. If you were a online casino owner, wouldnt you put this trigger in just in case?

Anyway 500 sucks but i got screwed out of 4000 on 4 rounds of bj. In the meantime, casinorewards graciously offered me about 80 dollars in comps over 3 weeks. I personally would have appreciated maybe a high roller bonus of $100 to $200 so I probably won't return to them.

[dave_r]

If there is a "trigger" for the take down mode, the casino owner wouldn't be able to activate it himself. If software developers allowed individual operators to do this, eventually these operators would eventually rat out the software developer.

So instead, these "triggers" are built into the software.

The software developer can now steal from both players and individual operators at the same time.

The software developer ("turnkey provider") steals from players by rigging the games in such a way that the highest bets lose at a much higher than normal rate. The software knows when a player makes his LARGEST bets and all of a sudden the invincible dealer comes alive.

The software developer steals from his own operators by creating "shill" players that win so much money, it makes up for all the stealing that took place from the real players. So when the individual casino operator looks at his backend (backoffice balance sheet and gaming logs), he too is under the false impression that the games are honest, and while some players are losing big, other players are winning big, and his profits reflect that of an honest game in a land based casino.

Can any of this be proven? The answer is that its very difficult. Standard deviation and chi square can be used, but what if a player happens to win more hands than he's supposed to on his smaller bets, and less hands than he's supposed to when betting 100, 200 or $500 per hand. It looks like a fair game. Noone can prove anything.

[dave_r]

Ofcourse there are exceptions when a software developer DOES allow an individual operator to cheat at his own discretion. One such example is listed right here:

http://home.barak-online.net/y-igal/

http://home.barak-online.net/y-igal/limits.html

(Thanks to Bryan for pointing this out in his rogue entry for 1cnp)

[cipher]

If there is a "trigger" for the take down mode, the casino owner wouldn't be able to activate it himself. If software developers allowed individual operators to do this, eventually these operators would eventually rat out the software developer.

So instead, these "triggers" are built into the software.

The software developer can now steal from both players and individual operators at the same time.

The software developer ("turnkey provider") steals from players by rigging the games in such a way that the highest bets lose at a much higher than normal rate. The software knows when a player makes his LARGEST bets and all of a sudden the invincible dealer comes alive.

The software developer steals from his own operators by creating "shill" players that win so much money, it makes up for all the stealing that took place from the real players. So when the individual casino operator looks at his backend (backoffice balance sheet and gaming logs), he too is under the false impression that the games are honest, and while some players are losing big, other players are winning big, and his profits reflect that of an honest game in a land based casino.

Can any of this be proven? The answer is that its very difficult. Standard deviation and chi square can be used, but what if a player happens to win more hands than he's supposed to on his smaller bets, and less hands than he's supposed to when betting 100, 200 or $500 per hand. It looks like a fair game. Noone can prove anything.

The fact is this, "proof" would only be needed if and when litigation were to be introduced against any of the software providers for cheating. What makes a whole lot more sense than a lawsuit to the gambler is to be able to track and record virtually every aspect of a Blackjack session.

Seven years ago, we wrote the CIPHER program to be able to visually see not only when, but more importantly how a system was being manipulated.

To say the least its uncanny how even a slight change in the player's wagering patterns will in fact result in the "dumping" and "seeding" of lesser valued cards which in turn will spawn some pretty spectacular wins for the house i.e. take down mode.

[jpm]

That is astounding Cipher , and quite troubling as well.

[jerseyguy11]

all good information thanks. yes, that "winners limit" feels about right at some of the casinos I've played at. Ive been playing so long online that you tend to get a feel for how the different software and ability to win feels while you play.

i still think microgaming blackjack is the fairest, but some microgaming operators feel a little shady too. Its really hard to tell. I truly hope one day all this becomes federally regulated (i.e. atlantic city/las vegas) and believe me it will.

btw im ShadyPlayer22 this is my new screen name because I forgot the pw to my old one lol.

I still say fortune lounge, vegas partners, intercasino group is the fairest/fastest out there. Only place when the dealer hits blackjack or 20 constantly in a streak i believe its just bad luck and not shady tactics. And believe me there have been plenty of times this has happened.

[daywalker]

So guys, you're saying these casinos are rigged, especially when you stick your largest bet down?

But yet you continue to play them???

[cipher]

So guys, you're saying these casinos are rigged, especially when you stick your largest bet down?

But yet you continue to play them???

Wow, you have some great interpretive skills. I'm saying that Blackjack on the internet can be rigged by the software providers and I've personally recorded a great many sessions wherein the common denominator for such rigging is the seeding and dumping of small valued cards particularly when the wager is increased. Now is that spelled out clearly enough for you?

[jerseyguy11]

So guys, you're saying these casinos are rigged, especially when you stick your largest bet down?

But yet you continue to play them???

if something feels crooked to me I dont continue to play with them. I played at CASINO ON AIR and CASINO BAR a while ago. I remember they advertised on "spedia" which I happened to glance at my young cousins account with spedia. Gave them a try they looked like a fun new casino to play at. I dumped 5k on those two before It finally sunk in that they were indeed rigged. Now, you may think 5k is a lot but my avg play back then was 10 or 15k per casino group. So... I had such feelings that Casino bar/air was rigged that I cut my losses which I normally dont do. This was 1999 i think. Just recently I read wizard of odds article. No surprise. Its not rocket science to figure out when stuff is rigged.

When you lose a decent amount of money to these crooks it does leave a bad taste in your mouth, but you have to say to yourself "It was a learning experience, im smarter now". I wish I had found this board sooner as I probably could have avoided some of my largest loses on the worst casinos.


Lesson is... If you play 1000 hands of blackjack you get a feel for whats fair and whats not. If you even have a slight doubt that your being dealt rigged hands, CUT YOUR LOSSES. Play at well known names like fortune lounge. I know I must sound like i advertise fortune lounge so much, but I have a lot of respect for that group. I feel safe depositing large money with them, something I havent felt with any other casinos.

[jerseyguy11]

Also want to send a message to VPops of fortune lounge. As i was in litigation with Visa I was researching a great amount of case law, public policy etc.

In 2001 (If i remember correctly) state of NJ (where I live) sued 7 sultans to stop them from accepting/soliciting NJ bets. You guys settled (with attn gen of NJ) to stop accepting memberships from NJ locations.

Well that fact alone has kept me from playing at 7sultans yet I never tried to open an account to see If I would be accepted as a player from NJ. But i have been playing at the other casinos in fortune group. Im glad thats still possible.

Online gambling is sometimes unsafe and its nice that the attny general took a stand (even though it was a "half a$$ stand" compared to elliott spitzers stance on the subject) on pursuing casinos. But what the goverment has to understand is that only federally regulated casinos will ensure honest play (not to mention the taxes US goverment gets, those bums ). But if they want to pursue a casino, they should go after places on the rouge list not honest "always pays out cashins" casinos like fortune lounge.

SO i have a lot of respect for you guys. stay honest

-shadyplayer22