Casino payout - do you believe?

[YuraK]

Many online casinos publish their payout figures. What do you think, should players believe these figures?
Some payouts are untested, other are "verified" by PWC, OPA, BMM, probably some other companies. Does these auditors mark add some credibility for you? I would say that after this article http://www.winneronline.com/articles/august2003/pwc.htm written by Jetset I suppose, I began to trust PWC figures.
So do you and general players believe payout percentage casinos give and does some third-party audit add reliability to these figures?

[jetset]

YuraK, if you carry out a search under PricewaterhouseCoopers and eCOGRA here and at WOL you will see many passionate exchanges on this subject from which you can hopefully draw your own conclusions having studied the various arguments.

I think it is fair to say that the argument has been repeatedly turned over and debated extensively.There are strong feelings on both sides regarding this service as you will no doubt see.

[sw2003]

Some payout numbers were provided by the software providers so one obviously has to take them with a large grain of salt.

[caruso]

Without wanting to incite acrimony, my advice is to ignore payout figures. If you use those types of criteria to judge the playableness of a casino you are making a huge mistake.

[nafanny29]

whenever i play blackjack on a multiplayer table i see the most horrendus playing mistakes being made all the time (ie splitting 10s, doubling on hard totals etc)

Im suprised the payout figures are over 50% judging by what i see at the tables!!!

[hhcfreebie]

I kept a good record on my play. I found their payout to be more than the report, at least for all major softwares.
Most time I play BJ and JoB only and I strickly follow the basic startegy.

[YuraK]

Jetset, I've read the most of the topics about eCOGRA and PWC, IFAIK I was the one who replyed to your post about eCOGRA at WOL which leads to so many talks . But the most conversations were whether PWC and eCOGRA prove that software is fair. That's a little bit different point IMO, though close one. Anyway, I know your point about PWC, what do you think about OPA or BMM?
As far as I understand so far only Jetset believe in payout figures and only in audited by PWC . Just wonder, if nobody need this audit (I mean players), why casinos pay for it?

BTW, nafanny29, even "never bust" and "mimic dealer" strategies have only about 5% house edge which is far from 50% mentioned .

[jetset]

Well, now YuraK you seem to know a little more than you're showing so far!

"As far as I understand so far only Jetset believe in payout figures and only in audited by PWC . Just wonder, if nobody need this audit (I mean players), why casinos pay for it?"

This statement seems extravagant, bearing in mind that no more than ten posters have expressed opinions on this contentious issue. But your presumably rhetorical question "why casinos pay for it?" is valid. It seems to be a lot of trouble and expense to go to just to "reassure" players, which seems to be the usual view of those dismissing it.

BTW I have certainly never said that PWC is the sole authority on the matter, because that has yet to be proved and there are other apparently respectable testing companies out there like TST who have probably forgotten more than I will ever know about the technical complexities of verifiying that software was fair when checked. You may have gathered that I prefer to see a little hard evidence when PWC is attacked for being crooks and liars.

I suspect that your objective here is to drag me into yet another acrimonious exchange, and I think that would be pointless and a waste of effort given the fact that opinions on this have been voiced ad nauseum and there is little possibility of agreement between what are clearly polarised views.

I don't mind again voicing my honest personal opinion based on interaction at conferences with some of the impressive professionals at PWC that the TGTR system is genuine, honestly applied and effective. I do not share the view that PWC are dishonest or "in the pocket" of Boss, CON, Crypto, MGS or any other software providers to whom they supply their services.

And I don't intend to get into yet another laborious and at times abusive debate on this.

[YuraK]

I suspect that your objective here is to drag me into yet another acrimonious exchange, and I think that would be pointless and a waste of effort given the fact that opinions on this have been voiced ad nauseum and there is little possibility of agreement between what are clearly polarised views.

Quite contrary, I know your point on PWC, case closed. I would like to know your opinion about other third-party auditors though.
But the main reason for the topic was to get as much replies from different people as possible. And I expected short answers like "I don't believe them" or "I belive all payout figures" or "I pay attention to OPA and PWC only"...

One of the reasons to ask the question is that I have full PWC-audited payout list at my site and I wonder if I need to extend it by OPA/BMM-audited casinos or maybe vice versa - to delete it.

[largeeyes]

I have to agree that payouts are garbage. I can't believe they are as high as they are, honestly. I played at be the dealer and just was dumbstruck by things I saw.