What's really going on with Internet Blackjack

[cipher]

For better than 6 years plus now I've been a pretty regular player at fifty or so Internet casinos and I'm more than a little concerned that in that amount of time I've really never come across someone or heard of someone winning what I'd refer to as a sizeable amount of money.

The best that I've managed to accomplish on the Internet is in the area of $15,000.00 over a period of a week or so. It just seems to me that somebody should be nailing some substantial wins if in fact this Internet Blackjack is truly legit.

I don't get it, I've never heard of any substantial wins mentioned here at Casinomeister or at Winner On Line, Bet to Gamble or any of the other forums. While at the same time I personally have managed substantial Blackjack wins in the $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 + range on a fairly frequent basis. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bewitch]

Wow, $25000-$50000... Do you read bethug's post?

Gee, you gentlmen took all the winning.

How's your knee surgery doing? Hope everything went well. Take care!

 

[ftg]

. While at the same time I personally have managed substantial Blackjack wins in the $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 + range on a fairly frequent basis.

Cipher, appreciate if you could tell what software platform you made this wins.

 

[cipher]

Wow, $25000-$50000... Do you read bethug's post?

Gee, you gentlmen took all the winning.

How's your knee surgery doing? Hope everything went well. Take care!

Good to hear from you my friend. I'm in the fourth and final week (hopefully) of physical therapy with 5 degrees to go for full motion and the return to the golf course. I havn't forgotten Bewitch I owe you a Cipher disc. Have a good one.

 

[cipher]

Cipher, appreciate if you could tell what software platform you made this wins.

FTG, thanks for bringing something to my attention the $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 that I spoke of was won at brick and mortar casinos in Vegas and South Lake Tahoe.

The best I've ever done on an Internet casino was on the proprietary software at Outdated URL (Invalid) but I've got to add that they have seriously tightened up their game. If you're patient and well funded you can make some serious money on that software. Especially in light of the fact that you can elect on a hand for hand basis whether you want to play in free or real mode without getting out of the system.

Sorry for any bum information I might have conveyed.

 

[cipher]

FTG;

I'm going to try to attach a copy of a Cipher Strand incident to Oasis that I just finished. Bear in mind the Red blocks register a LOSS for the player or a PUSH and the Green blocks register a WIN for the player. Everything else is pretty much self-explanatory. Have a good one.

 

[hhcfreebie]

For better than 6 years plus now I've been a pretty regular player at fifty or so Internet casinos and I'm more than a little concerned that in that amount of time I've really never come across someone or heard of someone winning what I'd refer to as a sizeable amount of money.

The best that I've managed to accomplish on the Internet is in the area of $15,000.00 over a period of a week or so. It just seems to me that somebody should be nailing some substantial wins if in fact this Internet Blackjack is truly legit.

I don't get it, I've never heard of any substantial wins mentioned here at Casinomeister or at Winner On Line, Bet to Gamble or any of the other forums. While at the same time I personally have managed substantial Blackjack wins in the $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 + range on a fairly frequent basis. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Won $25k - $50k? Is that the total amount, or you can win 25k-50k fairly frequently?
If it's later, you must be a super high roller.
The reason not many people can win 25-50k is because most people don't bet more than 100 per hand. Low rollers like us just won't see more than 2k winning, let along 25-50k. In fact, I'll be very happy if I can score $200 per day. Also, we can't count cards effectively online and that reduce another possible way of advantage play.
Progression players often bet big so they can score big win from time to time as well.
Now if you are asking about advantage play. I know people can easily score more than $10k per year. Some very successful player can score more than $50k per year.
Of course, advantage players don't brag.

 

[thesmacker]

Whats your experience with Oasis other then your nice win Cipher? Do they pay fast, have good CS? Thanks in advance
Cheers

 

[cipher]

Whats your experience with Oasis other then your nice win Cipher? Do they pay fast, have good CS? Thanks in advance
Cheers

I doubt that there are many online casinos out there where a player can have a relationship lasting better than 6 years plus with a casino and/or sportsbook. A fellow by the name of Rodney Barker is the main guy there at Oasis and I have a great deal of confidence in Rodney as well as his business accumen.

Oasis is known for handling a great deal of sports wagering and accordingly they are a very well funded organization and they pay generally within a 48 hour window unless there is a weekend involved.

I do not take advantage of any bonuses offered, however I do need to have the automatic bonuses removed from my account after making a deposit and prior to playing, but all that is required there is a simple phone call to customer service.

 

[bewitch]

Good to hear from you my friend. I'm in the fourth and final week (hopefully) of physical therapy with 5 degrees to go for full motion and the return to the golf course. I havn't forgotten Bewitch I owe you a Cipher disc. Have a good one.

It's nice to hear from you as well. It must be a lot for you to go through the whole thing. Health is most important in our life. May everything will be smooth for you from now on. Have fun at golf course and take it easy!

BTW, I forgot about the disc until yesterday when I pick up the mail. Then I was wondering how are you doing. Don't even worry about it. Take care!

 

[cipher]

Won $25k - $50k? Is that the total amount, or you can win 25k-50k fairly frequently?
If it's later, you must be a super high roller.
The reason not many people can win 25-50k is because most people don't bet more than 100 per hand. Low rollers like us just won't see more than 2k winning, let along 25-50k. In fact, I'll be very happy if I can score $200 per day. Also, we can't count cards effectively online and that reduce another possible way of advantage play.
Progression players often bet big so they can score big win from time to time as well.
Now if you are asking about advantage play. I know people can easily score more than $10k per year. Some very successful player can score more than $50k per year.
Of course, advantage players don't brag.

hhcfreebie; Whether you're a "highroller" or not has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to win significant amounts of money. Yes, if you expect to win in the ranges of $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 you'd better be well funded. But I've personally seen as much as $5,000,000.00 in a single weekend dropped by morons who had absolutely no business whatsoever at a Blackjack table.

I personally subscribe to the basic principle that the more you know about any given situation (Blackjack or not) the more likely it is that you'll come out on top. Thats why I insist on knowing one hell of a lot more than the casino knows about whats happening in any session of Blackjack that I play and in realtime.

The previous example did not include the html files that are recorded along with the Cipher strand and I'm attaching those hereto for your perusal. In closing you're absolutely right hhcfreebie, "true advantage players don't brag they just take care of business."

 

[tim5ny]

You've seen people drop 5 MILLION dollars at a BJ table in a weekend?????

 

[cipher]

You've seen people drop 5 MILLION dollars at a BJ table in a weekend?????

That's exactly right.

 

[dickens1298]

You've seen people drop 5 MILLION dollars at a BJ table in a weekend?????

Not a big deal at the nicer establishments in Vegas. One weekend I was playing at the Hard Rock. I was betting about $300 to $500 per hand.. the guys next to me were pumping in about $30,000 to $50,000 per hand, occasionally pushing it to $100,000 or more.

 

[spearmaster]

Damn... what's the point of a table limit? That's like outrageous...

Can I give you some of my business cards to hand out next time you see people like that at the table?

 

[dickens1298]

Damn... what's the point of a table limit? That's like outrageous...

Can I give you some of my business cards to hand out next time you see people like that at the table?

Most pit bosses will gladly change the table limit for you, especially to discourage other players from jumping in.

I'd actually be more than happy to deal out any business cards... A number of these players, unsurprisingly, are business owners.

 

[m249a]

Odd's are good if they were playing that kind of cash, they could afford to. I would wager that much if I could afford to. Those are the kind of players who get picked up in a private jet and flown ANYWHERE they want to go...full comps, limo's,chicks, beer............oh sorry, I was dreaming about what I would do...lol, my sorry ass is lucky to wager $200-$300 a hand, AFTER I grind a few hours on the $25 table..........Just once I want to wager more then $10,000 on a hand of BJ, the pure adrenline rush would be something to remember for the rest of my life.....

 

[spearmaster]

Most pit bosses will gladly change the table limit for you, especially to discourage other players from jumping in.

Yes, of course this is true - and one of my favorite tricks as well - but can you imagine a table minimum of $300 and a max of $100K?

Especially in a public area... LOL...

 

[dickens1298]

Yes, of course this is true - and one of my favorite tricks as well - but can you imagine a table minimum of $300 and a max of $100K?

Especially in a public area... LOL...

Yeah... it DID make feel a tad insignificant... LOL

The table was actually a $100 table. When they raised the limits, I was automatically "grandfathered" in.

 

[spearmaster]

"grandfathered"

Yeah... LOL... still a huge jump! Completely forgot about grandfathering... LOL...

 

[cipher]

Damn... what's the point of a table limit? That's like outrageous...

Can I give you some of my business cards to hand out next time you see people like that at the table?

I'll go one better than that Spear. I'll pull up

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straight away for them. Good to hear from you Spear.

 

[bewitch]

LOL~ I did!

The first time I visited land casino (real gambling) on Feb, I told the other guests at the table about all these good website because they didn't believe it's my first time "sitting down" on the live BJ table.

Should I ask for commision?

 

[spearmaster]

You guys and gal are too kind... LOL...

Maybe we oughta organize a get-together in Vegas in October... I'll buy the drinks...

...oops... drinks are free...

Well, there are lots of good dinner places No buffets... LOL... I gotta drop a little more weight as well

 

[hhcfreebie]

Not a bad idea, maybe it's time to see the one who rob you month after month.

...oops... drinks are free...

I'll let you tip the waitress then.

 

[cipher]

You guys and gal are too kind... LOL...

Maybe we oughta organize a get-together in Vegas in October... I'll buy the drinks...

...oops... drinks are free...

Well, there are lots of good dinner places No buffets... LOL... I gotta drop a little more weight as well

I'm a little closer to Vegas than you Spear (5 hours) but count me in if you want to put it together. I'd be happy to assist in anyway that I can. Maybe see if Jet and Bryan can make it as well.

 

[bewitch]

Count me in. I had only been Vegas once with my daughter ( 10 months old) few years ago. I can't play because of my baby and I didn't know how to play, either (except few pull of Slot machines). LOL~

 

[spearmaster]

Now this is starting to look interesting... LOL... I can assure you that the Meister is 99% sure to be present. And hopefully Jetset will be there as well... would be a great get-together. The Global Gaming Expo is October 4-7, so that's the target week - hotel prices should be a little steeper unless you normally get comped. Have to see if some special rates can be arranged...

Let me have a word with the Meister after he gets back from Italy... but perhaps this is not such a bad idea after all And of course we can expect a visit from the Wiz... who lives there

 

[jetset]

Sounds like a great idea, and it would be a real treat to chew the fat with some of you guys - we've all been interacting on the 'Net for years, yet Spear, Greedy Girl and Bryan are I think the only ones I've actually met (not including the other good industry folks who are not regulars here but with whom one comes in contact at the main industry events)

BTW M249, your comment "Those are the kind of players who get picked up in a private jet and flown ANYWHERE they want to go...full comps, limo's,chicks, beer............" reminds me of a talk given by a land casino marketing guru called Dennis Conrad recently.

His tales of the lengths land casinos will go to to get these whales in the door were fascinating. Apparently there are relatively speaking not that many of the international heavyweights (he said mainly from Asia these days) but that it has become a mini-industry within the industry, with many of the high rollers employing agents to negotiate the comp packages, which can include everything from luxury travel and accommodati0on to special discounts and incentives!

 

[m249a]

See, thats what I need is an agent...hmmm, can you just imagine having enough money that you pay someone to get you free stuff? I think I'm king sh#* when I get a nice suite at the Borgata, or Ceasers, and all my charges to the room are comped...what I need is an entrauge' (I'm sure I spelled that wrong)...and my "agent" will make sure I am not paying for anything, hell I'm offended I have to drive to Atlantic City, I think they should....well like I said I play the $25 table for awhile before moving up, so maybe I shouldn't complain

 

[Lukas85]

Please excuse if this question is silly but how do these "whales" manage not to go broke on the long run?? The odds are against them and the casino operators wont grant them comps worth more than the expected losses of the "whales"?!

 

[cipher]

Now this is starting to look interesting... LOL... I can assure you that the Meister is 99% sure to be present. And hopefully Jetset will be there as well... would be a great get-together. The Global Gaming Expo is October 4-7, so that's the target week - hotel prices should be a little steeper unless you normally get comped. Have to see if some special rates can be arranged...

Let me have a word with the Meister after he gets back from Italy... but perhaps this is not such a bad idea after all And of course we can expect a visit from the Wiz... who lives there

Hi Spear,

I've got a very good connection at the Bellagio. If we can narrow down the time frame and get a little better idea as to people that will be coming in and the amount of rooms we'll need I'm pretty sure my contact there can help us out.

 

[spearmaster]

Cipher -

I think we'll just have to choose the best day for a get-together - obviously weekday rates are also better, but may not be convenient for everyone.

Wonder if we should let Bryan get back from his vacation and put up a poll, or perhaps I can set that up over on my site. My instinct says the 3rd or 4th is best... but if people are coming over the weekend then maybe the 1st or 2nd is better.

Jetset, I take it that you're planning to be in Vegas

m249 - in AC they don't give you nearly as much, don't ask me why though... in Vegas it also depends where you play - I got shit service from New York New York, so I won't be going back there... shit comps from Sahara even though I was heads and shoulders above most of their players and at a high house edge game (Deuces Wild Hold 'Em Fold 'Em) playing table max, so I certainly ain't going back there (not that there's anything worth going back for except that I know everyone).

Aladdin was decent... not entirely sure whether it was worth it or not as the slots and VP were horrible...

I like Cipher's Bellagio suggestion but be aware $50 is probably the minimum to get rated there so earning comps will require a substantial investment LOL.

Lukas - sometimes the casinos WILL grant you more than the expected loss... especially if you keep kicking their butts - they want you to go back so they have a chance of recouping their loss.

And as for whales - their pockets are so deep that it might only take a couple of bets to recoup their losses and more - I bet they'd employ a Martingale system if the casino would let them... the advantage of any player against the casino is being able to choose when to start and when to stop. They can't make you play.

 

[cipher]

Cipher -

I think we'll just have to choose the best day for a get-together - obviously weekday rates are also better, but may not be convenient for everyone.

Wonder if we should let Bryan get back from his vacation and put up a poll, or perhaps I can set that up over on my site. My instinct says the 3rd or 4th is best... but if people are coming over the weekend then maybe the 1st or 2nd is better.

Jetset, I take it that you're planning to be in Vegas

m249 - in AC they don't give you nearly as much, don't ask me why though... in Vegas it also depends where you play - I got shit service from New York New York, so I won't be going back there... shit comps from Sahara even though I was heads and shoulders above most of their players and at a high house edge game (Deuces Wild Hold 'Em Fold 'Em) playing table max, so I certainly ain't going back there (not that there's anything worth going back for except that I know everyone).

Aladdin was decent... not entirely sure whether it was worth it or not as the slots and VP were horrible...

I like Cipher's Bellagio suggestion but be aware $50 is probably the minimum to get rated there so earning comps will require a substantial investment LOL.

Lukas - sometimes the casinos WILL grant you more than the expected loss... especially if you keep kicking their butts - they want you to go back so they have a chance of recouping their loss.

And as for whales - their pockets are so deep that it might only take a couple of bets to recoup their losses and more - I bet they'd employ a Martingale system if the casino would let them... the advantage of any player against the casino is being able to choose when to start and when to stop. They can't make you play.

I've sent off an email to my gal Linda at the Bellagio to have her give me some figures on the period from the 1st of October thru the 10th of October. She normally is not at the Bellagio on the weekends so I might not hear from here before Monday but I'll let you know what she comes back with.

 

[hhcfreebie]

Please excuse if this question is silly but how do these "whales" manage not to go broke on the long run?? The odds are against them and the casino operators wont grant them comps worth more than the expected losses of the "whales"?!

They are losing far more than anyone else. Their pocket is deep enough so they don't mind to lose a few grand here and there.
Many of them got the money "the easy way" unlike us regular folks. They don't mind to lose them all because they can get the money easily from the poor people they robbed.
Don't envy them. With the amount of money they lose, you can buy far better services than those offered by casinos.

 

[caruso]

...how do these "whales" manage not to go broke on the long run??

Because their assets / earnings are greater than what they lose at the tables.

$100,000,000 less $2,000,000 = very happy casino and perfectly contented whale.

 

[spearmaster]

Caruso, you coming to join us in Vegas?

Chasing comps is not such a good idea... probably better to think about them after the fact, like just before paying your hotel bill. But always sign for your meals as well.

Trust me, I know... LOL... from now on I don't care, if I get a good rate I'll go. The Bellagio and the Venetian are the two hotels currently on my hit list LOL.

 

[caruso]

It's rather a long way for me, but I HAD tentatively planned on going back after an agreeable first time last year. I need to make an extended stay to handle the jet-lag, so Bellagio might be a tad pricey. Last year I'd just got adjusted and I was back on the flamin' plane again.

 

[jetset]

"Jetset, I take it that you're planning to be in Vegas?"

If I can manage it within the timeframe, yes Spear. But I have some stuff to attend to elsewhere in the States, and my wife will be joining me so that we can have a holiday driving through the Fall colours in Massachusetts and Maine.

Everything depends on the business requirement - all other dates will flow from that so I am trying to get it sorted out early so that I can say yea or nay to Vegas by next week.

Last time we visited that city we stayed at the Venetian, and it was mind-blowing! But the Bellagio will equally impressive, I'm sure.

 

[spearmaster]

There's no set requirement to stay at the Bellagio, of course - Cipher's just offering to see what he can hook us up with... and you should talk about a long way

I do agree about the jetlag though - I'd say you should plan at least 7-10 days any time you cross that many timezones. I'm just getting used to it, and still some trips really kill me.

Jetset - I hope you can make it - Bryan and I have not had the pleasure of your company in Vegas yet! And of course bring the significant other if you can, haven't seen her in a couple of years either and really enjoyed meeting her last time.

 

[dickens1298]

There's no set requirement to stay at the Bellagio, of course - Cipher's just offering to see what he can hook us up with... and you should talk about a long way

I do agree about the jetlag though - I'd say you should plan at least 7-10 days any time you cross that many timezones. I'm just getting used to it, and still some trips really kill me.

Jetset - I hope you can make it - Bryan and I have not had the pleasure of your company in Vegas yet! And of course bring the significant other if you can, haven't seen her in a couple of years either and really enjoyed meeting her last time.

Well.... I'm a relative newcomer, and hardly know any of you at all... but I MAY be able to get some comped rooms at the Venetian - weekday or no. Of course, it's a package deal - meaning that I'm included..

 

[dickens1298]

Sounds like a great idea, and it would be a real treat to chew the fat with some of you guys - we've all been interacting on the 'Net for years, yet Spear, Greedy Girl and Bryan are I think the only ones I've actually met (not including the other good industry folks who are not regulars here but with whom one comes in contact at the main industry events)

BTW M249, your comment "Those are the kind of players who get picked up in a private jet and flown ANYWHERE they want to go...full comps, limo's,chicks, beer............" reminds me of a talk given by a land casino marketing guru called Dennis Conrad recently.

His tales of the lengths land casinos will go to to get these whales in the door were fascinating. Apparently there are relatively speaking not that many of the international heavyweights (he said mainly from Asia these days) but that it has become a mini-industry within the industry, with many of the high rollers employing agents to negotiate the comp packages, which can include everything from luxury travel and accommodati0on to special discounts and incentives!

...and the casino hosts have their own personal lists of "preferred clients", which they bring with them should they leave the original casino.

Interesting anecdote - early this spring I was invited to a comped event at the Venetian. Three nights in a suite - fully comped - plus four tickets to the Busch AND Nextel Cup races that weekend. The tickets rhemselves were worth about $200. Not much of a Nextel Cup (Nascar) fan, but my girlfriend was. Went.. and had a blast.

Returned home, only to find another invitation for 3-4 nights comped, including meals, plus $200 in casino credits for slot or table play. VERY nice offers.

Here's the rub - before that Nascar event, I HAD NEVER GAMBLED AT THE VENETIAN. Even more oddly, Venetian is a stand-alone casino, and it's not part of the Mirage or Caesar's Palace groups (where I typically play).

 

[spearmaster]

Newcomer, oldtimer, makes no difference. The point is to get together with other like-minded (well, not always) people to have a good time and talk about something we share in common.

As for getting invites to the Venetian - almost certainly you're right, some host you know or knew somewhere must have moved there I don't get many offers because I live halfway around the world (translated - I'm not big enough of a player for them to fly me in) - but at my US address I do on occasion get some really nice offers... problem is, by the time I receive the offers they've expired

 

[spearmaster]

BTW, does anyone have any contacts at the Palms? I heard this was a happening place as well... was supposed to go there for my class reunion last year but had to skip it

 

[cipher]

Cipher -

I think we'll just have to choose the best day for a get-together - obviously weekday rates are also better, but may not be convenient for everyone.

Wonder if we should let Bryan get back from his vacation and put up a poll, or perhaps I can set that up over on my site. My instinct says the 3rd or 4th is best... but if people are coming over the weekend then maybe the 1st or 2nd is better.

Jetset, I take it that you're planning to be in Vegas

m249 - in AC they don't give you nearly as much, don't ask me why though... in Vegas it also depends where you play - I got shit service from New York New York, so I won't be going back there... shit comps from Sahara even though I was heads and shoulders above most of their players and at a high house edge game (Deuces Wild Hold 'Em Fold 'Em) playing table max, so I certainly ain't going back there (not that there's anything worth going back for except that I know everyone).

Aladdin was decent... not entirely sure whether it was worth it or not as the slots and VP were horrible...

I like Cipher's Bellagio suggestion but be aware $50 is probably the minimum to get rated there so earning comps will require a substantial investment LOL.

Lukas - sometimes the casinos WILL grant you more than the expected loss... especially if you keep kicking their butts - they want you to go back so they have a chance of recouping their loss.

And as for whales - their pockets are so deep that it might only take a couple of bets to recoup their losses and more - I bet they'd employ a Martingale system if the casino would let them... the advantage of any player against the casino is being able to choose when to start and when to stop. They can't make you play.

Here is the scoop for the Bellagio October 3rd thru the 7th (up to 30 rooms) I can get at $199.00 which includes an upgrade to the Lake side view.

 

[spearmaster]

Nice one! I may have to bite that bullet

Bryan, hurry back from your vacation so we can get the planning started LOL.

 

[caruso]

Here is the scoop for the Bellagio October 3rd thru the 7th (up to 30 rooms) I can get at $199.00 which includes an upgrade to the Lake side view.

That seems to be $30 off the rack rate for the standard room ($229), correct? $995 for five days, I certainly might be interested. The cost of the upgrade seems to be $50, or can you get a deal on that as well? - and, if not, is it worth an extra $250 for a Strip view?

 

[spearmaster]

Isn't the lake side view the same as the strip view? (haven't been to the site so don't know, but thought they were talking about the dancing fountains lake)?

On top of that, Caruso, as the rate appears to have come directly from the hotel... what you do is sign up for comps - and your play for the trip will probably earn at least a further discount if not some days gratis.

$199 is a great rate for that period. The Lake View actually costs $279 during that time, and $349 on Thursday the 7th.

 

[cipher]

Isn't the lake side view the same as the strip view? (haven't been to the site so don't know, but thought they were talking about the dancing fountains lake)?

On top of that, Caruso, as the rate appears to have come directly from the hotel... what you do is sign up for comps - and your play for the trip will probably earn at least a further discount if not some days gratis.

$199 is a great rate for that period. The Lake View actually costs $279 during that time, and $349 on Thursday the 7th.

The Strip view and the Lake view are one in the same. If you've seen the most recent release of OCEANS ELEVEN the Lake view is in the background at the close of the movie.

See attached file. The rooms that you see in the background are looking down on to the lake. Throughout the day and night the Bellagio has water shows such as is pictured in this photograph, at night it is truly spectacular.

 

[bewitch]

The picture looks beautiful!

Have fun if you make the get together work out!

 

[jetset]

"Throughout the day and night the Bellagio has water shows such as is pictured in this photograph, at night it is truly spectacular."

I can vouch for that - it is synchronised to music and is one of the great sights of Las Vegas.