My confession, and where I am now...

[Jeffrey Audette]

I have not told many people this - and would like to share my experience and possibly get some replies to what course I should be going down in the next few weeks...

Lately I have been using gambling as an alternative source of income to try and pay down on some debts that I have slowly managed to abuse over the last few years. I have been gambling online for roughly 12 months and have had some rotten moments of luck. The main problem I have had is resorting to credit cards to fund my balance in the online casino.

I won't exactly advertise or promote the site that I have been playing on - but they have a Live Dealer Roulette table that I often play at.

Just this week I have cashed out $2,500 out of my account to pay off one of my credit cards that I had maxed out due to gambling. The cash out request it still being processed but this is the first time in months that I have actually cashed out the money and have felt good about it... I do not want to really go back to where I was a few weeks ago...

I still have a LONG way to go and I guess registering here and writing up this thread - I want some advice and ideas from the people out there that may have had a similar experience to me, or can at least guide me in the right direction.

I mainly play a system and set myself goals at the start of every month. My current goal is to win $180 per day and spread this over 3 sessions of play in the morning, afternoon and evening (attempt to win $60 per session). In the past I have been able to stick to a strict regimented way of playing and not letting greed and impatience take over. Unfortunately though it has been easier to say than do and have sometimes found myself in a heap of trouble.

So far my current casino balance is sitting at $3,090. I wanted to get to $3,120 this morning but the way I was playing and risking a lot of money (at one stage was $200 behind where I needed to be). I find especially lately that is has been very hard and difficult to win on Roulette even placing small bets.

My main method of betting in the past has been to cover 2 of the 3 dozens (eg. 13 - 36) on a European Wheel, the initial bet amount per dozen being what I want to win - $10 on each dozen to win $30, a profit of $10. If the first spin was a loss I would then triple my bet on the next spin - $30 per dozen. This method worked well when I happened to fall into a win but turned dangerous when I happened to always not be betting on the dozen that came up!

Recently I have been using a 'Labouchere' method of betting and in the short term it has worked well. But it has it's own down-falls when I run into a loss streak of 5-10 spins when betting on an even result (eg. 1-18, Even, Red, Black, Odd, 19-36). Keeping in mind I am only wanting to win a total of $60 over a session of play (which often lasts for 15-30 minutes).

So - after everything I have mentioned above - I would welcome feedback and any advice that I should be looking into. I have wondered whether to change my focus to Blackjack as the probability of losing 5-7 hands in a row on Blackjack may be less?

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any replies and also contributing myself to this forum in the coming weeks and months. It may help me even keep my feet on the ground and realise what I have done in the past but to also focus on the future!

Regards, Shaun (sticks1977)

I have recently decided to do the same thing. I am 3000 in debt to my credit cards and my employer has not given me a raise in 10 years . They have let many people go and don't allow any overtime. 2 years ago they cut my pay by 5 percent. With football season starting up again I have started gambling again. I lost my first 2 bets and now I am down 200 bucks. I am waiting to get paid so I can either play blackjack or bet on football.
When I play blackjack every hand I win I increase my bet by 5 dollars and decrease my bet by 5 if I lose. This can be very profitable if I hit a winning streak. However if I am up to a bet of 40 dollars or more it can be very costly if you double down or split and lose. My problem is when I play blackjack I always walk away from the table too late. I need to stop after losing half of my money or losing 4 or 5 hands in a row

[Nifty29]

I have recently decided to do the same thing. I am 3000 in debt to my credit cards and my employer has not given me a raise in 10 years . They have let many people go and don't allow any overtime. 2 years ago they cut my pay by 5 percent. With football season starting up again I have started gambling again. I lost my first 2 bets and now I am down 200 bucks. I am waiting to get paid so I can either play blackjack or bet on football.
When I play blackjack every hand I win I increase my bet by 5 dollars and decrease my bet by 5 if I lose. This can be very profitable if I hit a winning streak. However if I am up to a bet of 40 dollars or more it can be very costly if you double down or split and lose. My problem is when I play blackjack I always walk away from the table too late. I need to stop after losing half of my money or losing 4 or 5 hands in a row

Don't do it man!!

Draw upon the experience of millions of gamblers with the same misguided thought process and think about where they all end up - with nothing.

[chuchu59]

I agree. Dont do it buddy. Just be thankful you still got a job in a country with more than a 9% unemployment rate. The credit debts arent so steep so embark on a repayment plan and once they are fully paid you can start low-rolling on BJ again.

[Mousey]

I'm only going to pop in here and pop off just this once... because threads like this both break my heart and anger me to the point of sputtering at the same time.

It amazes me that people will search through newspapers for a deal on new hedge trimmer (save $10!) or toothpaste (2 for $4!!)... or will wait to buy that monitor they need because they will put them on sale later, but won't get online and research* and read with comprehension about gambling and odds and what's a good game and what's a bad game and how to lower the house edge (by only .005% maybe), before blowing their hard earned money at a casino.

They won't learn basic strategy for things like BJ and VP, won't study the mathmatics and game play of table poker, will blow hundreds/thousands of dollars on slots and roulette and scratchers and lotteries... and expect to make money.

We are in extremely dangerous waters here folks where fairy tales rule.

Wake up call! You want to make money in the gambling business? Open your own casino, but DON'T GAMBLE.



*research -- diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.: recent research in medicine.


Bryan has links for some good informational books in the meistermall. Click on either link (depending on your location), look to the left for Casinomeister Books. There's a lot of good books in there.

http://www.casinomeister.com/shoppingUSA.php

http://www.casinomeister.com/shoppingEU.php//

Don't have money to buy books? Find titles/authors you want to read and visit your local library. Here in the USA, most libraries, even if they don't have what you want, can borrow it from another library long enough for you to read it.

[Westland Bowl]

WB, all due respect, I gotta disagree on some of this stuff.

With this statement, the first thing I noticed is that you are an I-Gaming Industry Representative.

I don't know what casinos you're playing, but do you think there's some kinda mass conspiracy since 11/09?

Yes. The online casinos are not above doing this sort of thing as there is a trust issue with hidden cards and out-of-reach justice process for suing online casinos for lack of visibility of how the cards are selected. The casinos I've played at are both accredited and sportsbook casinos.

Even if your casino figured out your strategy (I'm gonna get to that in a sec) why wouldn't it keep working at other casinos under a different handle?

There really isn't that much variety of different online casinos....just RTG, Vegas Tech, DGS....if one RTG casino "knows" my strategy then ALL RTG casinos do. Same for others.

You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year.

Hell, no. I would NOT give back that much! I have gave back about $8,000 of it. I refuse to give back anymore. So I've quit online casino gambling but use many no deposit offers.

This might be true, but only where casinos don't have multiplayer tables with published card shoes.

Huh? What are "published card shoes" ???

Online, you're dealt a lot more hands in an hour. And you have easier access to the records. I'm not saying here that no online casinos cheat, but what I'm saying is you're more likely to get a run of bad luck in any given hour online than you are in a brick casino, because you're playing more hands.

In a recent brick-and-mortar casino session, I played over 10 hours of blackjack of roughly 650 total hands. I came into two long losing streaks...a 7-hand losing streak and a 9-hand losing streak. With a recent online sportsbook casino in a total of 515 hands, I recorded 12 losing streaks of 7 or over. My longest winning streaks consisted of 6 hands- twice.

Okay, this is what I really gotta disagree with. I've programmed AI's and all kinds of complicated mathematical models. I also own a casino.

You are a casino owner? How is this going to help your case?

As a casino owner, I'll tell ya there's no point to doing what you're suggesting. Your code's getting audited...

Online casinos are audited by playing strict basic strategy using flat betting. There is no auditing of online casinos with using a betting strategy and determining if the higher bets are of the same 43% win rate as are the minimum bets. Also, if the bet is 20% or higher of the remaining balance of the account, how often do those bets win? Since Nov 2009, I've noticed a race to zero out my account as fast as possible while maintaining some semblance of "random" play.

, and look -- some people have to win big, or nobody would play, right?

Those who have been shown to win consistently won't be chosen to win big. It's just like consistent losers are given the biggest bonuses.

And beyond that, you've already got a mathematical edge, regardless of what system the player uses. A guy like you who made $60k last year and thinks it's because of a system rather than luck is a perfect customer because we know we're gonna get it back as long as we keep you playing. It's a mathematical fact.

My experience is that I DON'T get bonuses or offers to come back because of my consistent winning. It gotten to a point where they just refuse to let true random play in my case.

Add onto that the complexity of coding a system for "reading" player behavior like what you're talking about. Humans are smarter than machines. A lot like coding a poker bot, you're dealing with a field of infinite possibilities, and picking out certain behavior patters would be incredibly difficult. Let's say you always double on 12 except if a dealer shows a 3 or 4, or if the player on third base doesn't have to hit, or if the count is <-4. (And let's assume it's a 6- or 8-deck shoe where you can count). You'd have to play, at a guess, about 50,000 hands at a casino for the system to understand how those variables got together. Even then, software to tease those things out would cost at least half a million to write. And it's definitely not being marketed by the big software manufacturers, so that cost would be on a single operator. And if that operator's being audited, then certainly their RTP and their hand distributions would show some pretty weird stuff if their biggest players suddenly couldn't win anymore.

Online casino software don't need to reinvent the wheel with each player to determine what strategy each player is using. It can do simple analysis to compare a player's style against the database and once it determines what strategy I'm using, then do counter-measures. If not that, then simply make the player lose, say, 90% of his bigger bets when the bets are 20% or more of his balance.

I'm not saying the software you're talking about is impossible to write, but it's definitely not worth it. And the data cable on Shufflemaster tables is to track hands, not t[o influence them.

There should be NO reason to "track" hands on CSMs as they are on regular simple shoe games.

If you're seriously concerned about that, call the Nevada Gaming Control Board and ask -- there are some really intelligent, really well educated technical experts there who check this stuff all day, every day, all over Vegas. I'm pretty sure they'd back up what I'm saying. You're basically spinning a string of losses into a conspiracy theory. The human mind wants to see patterns, even in randomness, and gamblers have that instinct in spades, no pun intended. But it just ain't true. Even if it was possible, it'd be economically unfeasible, and blatantly obvious to auditors, players, and forums like these if it really happened.

let me say this... I WILL lose more often on my $50 bet when my balance is only say, $200, than if my balance is $2,000 in an online casino. I have found the same thing happening at the last time I played the Shufflemaster I-table in a real casino. Maybe I need to buy in for a bigger amount.

IMO it is irresponsible to encourage this person to continue gambling, in addition to telling him that systems "work". Whilst it isn't our responsibility to counsel problem gamblers, this member is clearly at a crossroads and the last thing he needs is "advice" about how to continue.

I wasn't trying to encourage the guy to continue gambling. He already has made up his mind that he will continue. I was trying to discourage him from continuing with ONLINE casinos, especially with playing blackjack online. If he were to continue gambling, then go to a real casino with a real shoe, not one with a CSM with a data cord attached to it.

@jstrike....thankyou for exposing just how much of that post was deluded gamblerspeak.

WB_Carter, you are certainly allowed to believe anyone here that you want to. However, I would love to see Westland's financials. I wonder how much he spent to end the year with $65,000. He doesn't say how much he lost, and that would certainly be relevant to what he says he won. There are successful BJ players all over the place. Most of them have sponsers that help cover the cost to get to the win, if that makes sense to you.

That year I won, 2009, I lost maybe about $2,000 before winning. The money all went to paying off bills, paying my brother back for my mother's funeral, paying taxes on the gains, paying for various healing modalities for health issues, I invested some of it, and I lost about $8,000 of it after Nov 2009.

In any case, it is a recipe for disaster for anyone to think they can support themselves or be able to win enough to get out of debt. Especially if the debt was created by gambling.

JMO

I agree with this. I believe I have the mental game to play blackjack. Most people wouldn't and I wouldn't encourage anyone to start. I've paid my dues before I started winning. And the casinos started to "do" something about that by messing with the randomness.

It's times like this I wish I owned a casino....I would make you a VIP instantly and just sit back and count the cash as you pitted systems against my house edge.

WB won $65k from good luck and nothing more and could well have spent $1m to get it.....but well never know as these guys never tell the real story.

The day I take lessons from WB or you will be the day that I have dinner and go clubbing with daveboz.

No, I didn't spend $1 million to get that $65K. It wasn't like that. I only started with $200 at Heroes Casino.

[jstrike]

I'm only going to pop in here and pop off just this once...

THANK YOU for weighing in here with some good sense.

OP needs to do what he knows is in his best interest, and not give into temptation. Gambling's ENTERTAINMENT -- it's a way to spend money and have a good time -- and when it pays out, you get yourself a nice prime rib and tickets to the Cirque du Soleil and a comp for a place a hot tub so you can bring your girlfriend next time, and spend your time playing with her all night, instead of playing all night with a blackjack dealer named Stanley from Lake Havasu.

Most important is the great advice that the only way to make money is to work. And yeah, working to open a casino counts, too (thanks, Mousey). But gambling's not a way to make money. Ever. Everevereverever. I'm not sure how much more strongly a casino owner can say this.

Look, WLB -- and I don't mean offense by this -- but I'm not an industry shill and if I was, I'd probably tell ya your system's perfect and come play with us. Truth is I wouldn't want you playing with us, even if you're worth $62k/year, because I don't want to host players whose quality of life hinges on whether they win or lose. Then, when they lose, I'm gonna feel like a jerk. I may own a casino, but I'm not gonna sugar-coat it: You have a higher chance of losing than winning, at my place or anywhere else. And I've spotted a certain kind of high-risk attitude toward play. The most dangerous thing is for players not to know that they're on the short end of the odds. Then, every string of wins the casino must be "learning your behavior" which just proves in their heads that the losses must be a conspiracy. I can watch a player winning $120 on one blackjack table, and watch another guy lose $12 at the exact same time, and the guy who lost $12 will complain it was rigged, and the guy who won is wondering when it's gonna "get him". IT is not a smart thing. It's random.

But mostly, I've seen another pattern that's a lot more common, of players who play very carefully, slowly and conservatively, and win. And win. And win......... for days sometimes. And I'm sitting there watching it thinkin, "cash out, buddy... this is it". But sure enough, come one night about 4am they're back and they're drunk, and they start playing stupid, forgetting their system, betting wild, not even playing basic strategy. And they blow it all. In my experience, that's 95% of the losses I see, and it happens to almost everybody sometime. Happens to me too, when I'm staying in Vegas. There's always that one night you go downstairs and wipe yourself out betting on horses in Hong Kong or some other equally stupid thing. Then you try to make it up on a roulette table while you're checking out of the hotel. Good luck, right? This is the nature of the beast.

If you like to gamble, and I do, then you've gotta see it as a way of spending your money. Not a way of making it. When I come back from Vegas, all I'm thinking is, how'm I gonna work harder from now on?

[Repro]

OP needs to do what he knows is in his best interest, and not give into temptation. Gambling's ENTERTAINMENT -- it's a way to spend money and have a good time -- and when it pays out, you get yourself a nice prime rib and tickets to the Cirque du Soleil and a comp for a place a hot tub so you can bring your girlfriend next time, and spend your time playing with her all night, instead of playing all night with a blackjack dealer named Stanley from Lake Havasu.

[Nifty29]

WLB, if you're going to accuse jstrike of being a shill or having ulterior motives, you should at least do some research.

I think you'll find he's anything but, even just based on his replies in this thread.

I know one thing for sure.....I would listen to him well before taking notes from someone who thinks that casinos "watch" your play and adjust the cards to defeat your "style" . Talk about tin hat stuff.

[jod5413]

Mousey, this has to be one of the best posts I have ever read here at Casinomeister!! If we still had the post of the fortnight (or whatever it was called), you would win hands down. If there was a post of the year for gamblers, this post of yours would be it.

Damn fine post. Thank You.

I'm only going to pop in here and pop off just this once... because threads like this both break my heart and anger me to the point of sputtering at the same time.

It amazes me that people will search through newspapers for a deal on new hedge trimmer (save $10!) or toothpaste (2 for $4!!)... or will wait to buy that monitor they need because they will put them on sale later, but won't get online and research* and read with comprehension about gambling and odds and what's a good game and what's a bad game and how to lower the house edge (by only .005% maybe), before blowing their hard earned money at a casino.

They won't learn basic strategy for things like BJ and VP, won't study the mathmatics and game play of table poker, will blow hundreds/thousands of dollars on slots and roulette and scratchers and lotteries... and expect to make money.

We are in extremely dangerous waters here folks where fairy tales rule.

Wake up call! You want to make money in the gambling business? Open your own casino, but DON'T GAMBLE.



*research -- diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.: recent research in medicine.


Bryan has links for some good informational books in the meistermall. Click on either link (depending on your location), look to the left for Casinomeister Books. There's a lot of good books in there.

http://www.casinomeister.com/shoppingUSA.php

http://www.casinomeister.com/shoppingEU.php//

Don't have money to buy books? Find titles/authors you want to read and visit your local library. Here in the USA, most libraries, even if they don't have what you want, can borrow it from another library long enough for you to read it.

[zeledrith]

Gambling is entertainment, I have come to live with it. Be prepared to lose the money you gamble or don't even start.

There is only one way to "win", get lucky, hit a multi-million dollar progressive and quit gambling immediately.

Or like previously mentioned, bonus abuse, which is very difficult now and not worth the time to be honest.


How incredibly slow can you be to not realize that casinos will win every single time?

1) You know betting systems are advertised EVERYWHERE

2) You can see casinos are still running after decades of betting systems being readily available.

3) You see the casinos laughing to the bank


Not only that, you see people comparing roulette and blackjack to the lottery now.

I would like to see the day you bet exactly $20 a day at blackjack and suddenly win $100k.

Fact: I used to buy $20 a week on the lottery for 5 years without a single hit.

I'm sure someone else in the world has gotten luckier than me and won the money I lost

Apples and Oranges, very different.


If you are rather convinced that betting systems magically might work for you.

Transfer $1000 into my bank and I will find every betting system on the internet with their scam websites and collate all the data for you.

Plenty to choose from I'm sure!

At least I get a cut of the money and can donate it to some charity.