A Better Bonus System....

[Gremmyboy]

I have read CasinoMeister for a fair while now and have noticed that 99% of the problems with Casinos are because of the bonuses.

Surely there could be a better way to implement bonuses where they aren't open to abuse and will reward the loyal player as they were intended to do by design?

I'd like to hear Ideas people have on what would make a better system over all?

My Ideas

1) I believe there should be SUB's but they should be given after the initial deposit has been played and the amount of wagering should be factored in...Ie If you deposit $100 and Do two bets of $50 you would get a lower % bonus than if you had Deposited $100 and had bet 100 $1 bets.

2) I think that the over all amount of bonuses offered to a player should be lowered and instead a more rewarding loyalty scheme put in place...Ie Larger returns for comp points(Instead of 100 points for $1 it would be 100 points for $5) This would be affordable for the casino as they wouldn't be handing out huge bonuses left and right.
I also think that a system where instead of trading your comp points for casino credits you could save them up and spend them towards a reward in a gift shop that the casino creates.(10000 points you could chose a product that has a value of $500 or save them up for an even bigger prize) This would give the player the sense that even though they've lost their few deposits that they have a chance to get something back at a later date. Even if they've been unlucky they would feel as if they are working towards a prize as opposed to feeling that they have just thrown their money away. In turn the player would be more inclined to keep depositing to get to the level where they can claim their prize of choice. All this would make sure the player felt good about the casino even if they were having a long run of bad luck.
The casinos could buy products wholesale so would be making money as the points would go towards the product instead of the player potentially winning from them. Kind of like the games arcades where you win tickets and then take the kids up to the counter and exchange their tickets for little toys and lollies. Same deal but on a bigger scale.
The player should have the choice of whether they want to use their comp points for casino credits or for a prize and should have the ability to manage their comp points within the cashier..Ie They could claim 100 of them for $5 if low on funds and store say 500 of them in a prize account. (sort of like 3Dices safe) The player should be able to freely move their points between the 'prize savings' account and the 'comp points for cash' account.

3) Have tournaments where you can win bonuses. They should be free to enter and should be decent enough to make it worthwhile for players to play. Players will get good value for money as they are not just playing in freeplay mode for no benefit and can actually win something that will later be used to deposit. Which in turn would encourage deposits. They will also be able to keep playing even if they are low on funds which will instil familiarity with the casino in question and result in loyalty from the player. They will play knowing that if they win, their next deposit however small, will have a 200% bonus attached with a reasonably low WR.
There could also be tournaments for prizes instead of casino credits for a small buy in fee... Ie A Plasma TV. The buy ins would cover the cost of the TV.(If the casino set the tournaments up so that they are not played until XXX amount of players have bought in then they can guarantee a profit from the tournament) I'd certainly play a tournament where I had to pay $10 to buy in and could win a Plasma TV. I think that Rebuys and Continues should be kept to a bare minimum if any at all so that all players who deposit $'s big or small have an equal chance to win a TV(Or whatever) for $10! This would be an exciting tournament IMO.

4) No free chips at all unless for compensation or good will. Perhaps reward a regular player a free chip with low WR once a month and dependent on their deposits. This way they are only rewarded for being a loyal customer.

These are just ideas(probably idealistic drivel!) and I would love to hear CM members and Casino Reps views on this subject that is plaguing the industry.

Cheers
Gremmy






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[PlexRep]

Workable ideas or not.... Kudos to you for trying to find a solution and not just bitc**n about the problem!

lets have a look at your suggestions and see what flaws may exist....

1: interesting idea, but I'd want to see an expanded formula. What else should be taken into account? Customer loyalty for sure. I firmly believe the longer a player is with you the better the rewards they should get. Not sure about bet size being a factor though. Play time might make more sense. assessing their 'value for money' so to speak.

2: Dig a bit and you'll find a lot of casinos and poker rooms with shops where you can purchase items. Thing is... those shops are generally about as popular with customers as a condom machine in the Vatican. In theory people like the idea of a shop, but when it actually comes down to cashing in those points the lure of cash in your account is normally too hard to resist.
One other point on lowering the wagering required to get those points... suddenly a whole new crop of T's and C's would be born to prevent people taking advantage of loopholes just to rack the points up. A potential pandoras box so to speak...
btw... for a mere 30 million points you can get a BMW m6 from our own shop....

3: This is my favorite of your suggestions, and I'll look into doing some of these on a trial to see how they go!

4: Sadly if your competition offers free chips up front and you don't where do you think the players will go? That said... the type of traffic you generally get from these is pretty weak. Lots of sites already offer freebies for existing players with little or no rollover though. Our own vip program for example gives a % back on monthly losses with zero rollover. We also have prize draws and other ways to reward loyal players win or lose, based on the amount wagered. Dig around, playing close attention to VIP programs, and you'll find plenty like this.

Looking over it, it would seem the trick is to find a casino that you like, and one that rewards loyalty often and well, then stick to it. I've noticed that a lot of the complainers are people on their first deposit or at least close to. Its a lot rarer to find a bonus complaint where the player has been with the site for a long time.

Cheers again for the input Gremmy. Keep the ideas coming!

[H1_Roller]

Nice ideas Gremmy. I would agree with comp points especially - I recently spent about a week H1_Rolling at Spin Palace. I had a very high balance (+£3000) most of the time, and was playing hundreds, thousands of spins at up to £18 - £25 per spin. I've no idea what I wagered overall but I know it was a LOT.
Afterwards (when I finally withdrew £2500), I had something like £18.56 available in redeemable comp points. To me that's just an insult. I'd like to feel 'rewarded' with something better, and it wouldn't have to be casino chips.
In fact I'd prefer it if it wasn't.

[Gremmyboy]

I may have posted this thread at the wrong time.....

Think a lot of players are more concerned at actually being able to play and deposit at the moment!

I'll add more thoughts when I get home from work and hopefully there are some from others
Really think it is a problem that needs a solution

The way I see it CM is the worlds largest online casino think tank and should be utilised as such!

This has been an ongoing issue for as long as I can remember and I truly believe if enough time and energy is spent discussing this openly between the player community and the Casino Reps then perhaps solutions could be made and implemented to everyone's benefit!

At least Max's work load would lesson!

Cheers
Gremmy

[Rhyzz]

Nice ideas Gremmy. I would agree with comp points especially - I recently spent about a week H1_Rolling at Spin Palace. I had a very high balance (+£3000) most of the time, and was playing hundreds, thousands of spins at up to £18 - £25 per spin. I've no idea what I wagered overall but I know it was a LOT.
Afterwards (when I finally withdrew £2500), I had something like £18.56 available in redeemable comp points. To me that's just an insult. I'd like to feel 'rewarded' with something better, and it wouldn't have to be casino chips.
In fact I'd prefer it if it wasn't.

You need a turnover deal if you want something like that. Casino's will never offer higher comp conversion rates because they're simply not attractive, if anything they're seen as an unnecessary spend since there is more abuse than genuine reward linked to Comps.

[dingdingding]

You need a turnover deal if you want something like that. Casino's will never offer higher comp conversion rates because they're simply not attractive, if anything they're seen as an unnecessary spend since there is more abuse than genuine reward linked to Comps.

I think this outlines the real thing about the loyalty schemes of online casinos... they use loyalty "rewards" less for rewarding the player, but only for maximising profit usually. When I have a look at online poker for example, their loyalty schemes and offers do actually give something valuable back to the loyal player, most casino "gifts" like deposit bonusses or freeroll slot tournaments actually only have one goal, maximising players losses (statistically the wr means you have to play more games vs the house edge) and making them pay for the continueing stuff on freeroll tournaments, which don't even award rebuys or continues to the prize pool.

Comps and NDBs are the rare exceptions of actual gifts to players, while most of the other stuff isn't a reward but technically just an assurance of the casinos income.

Don't get me wrong, the market is pretty much fought for and probably the casinos don't have much more to give away without losing their income, but calling that stuff bonus, gift or reward actually is misleading, since the T&Cs for Deposit Bonusses and Freerolls don't "honor the spirit" of what a reward to the player should be.

[baldidiot]

What about the post wager system used on wagerworks? You deposit, get a pending bonus and it is released after you have met the wagering requirements and it's released as cash (or with a 1x rollover I think).

You're playing with your own money and you're free to withdraw at any time with no penalties. Plus they probably don't get too many problems with bonus abuse as the normal tactics don't work (eg: betting really high at first to build up a large bankroll and then grinding).

[Rhyzz]

What about the post wager system used on wagerworks? You deposit, get a pending bonus and it is released after you have met the wagering requirements and it's released as cash (or with a 1x rollover I think).

You're playing with your own money and you're free to withdraw at any time with no penalties. Plus they probably don't get too many problems with bonus abuse as the normal tactics don't work (eg: betting really high at first to build up a large bankroll and then grinding).

It's not a competitive system for those that don't fully understand the implications of wagering requiremennts. Bonuses are used as acquisition tools mainly and by saying "We give you £100 to play with" is much better than saying "If you manage to wager £X, we'll give you £100"

Poker sites can guarantee a return on their investment so you will always see better bonuses and gifts, rake works on a flat rate, Casino income doesn't

[dingdingding]

Poker sites can guarantee a return on their investment so you will always see better bonuses and gifts, rake works on a flat rate, Casino income doesn't

If the site is big enough it does... having a 3% edge vs the player is almost the same as collecting 3% rake. While it is true that Casinos can lose more at a single coup or spin and can in opposition to the pokerroom lose AT ALL, rake and a house-edge break down to be the same EV wise. Of course, the Casinos have to deal with the Variance, so they are almost never getting exactly their EV.

Variance can favor any side though, the Casino can not only lose more than 3%, they can also win more ;-)

[Gremmyboy]

Thanks for the input in all the above this posts!

I truly believe there has got to be a better way to implement a bonus sytsem that works for the casino and the player and has no loopholes for bonus abusers. Which in turn would make them fairer on the legit players as they wouldn't be so full of terms that you need a law degree to decipher them. Most of the 'Bonus Whoring' websites would disappear as they would be pointless and that would make way for the legitimate affiliates that care about the players and casinos they promote.

If all casino adopt a better approach to the bonuses it would take care of a lot of rogue casinos as their ridiculous bonuses would appear odd to a player that is used to a different system.(If all casinos are offering a SUB after you've played then Virtual's 1Bizillion% bonus with no max cashout and 10x wr would look suss to even the most novice player!)

I figure if everyone here contributes just one idea then eventually there will be enough ideas that can be discussed and any loopholes filtered out and the they could be put to the test by any of the casino reps that would be inclined to try a better system.

A lot of people with just a single idea will make for an entire bonus system that will be streamlined and not abusable.... Well hopefully anyway.

Cheers
Gremmy