3Dice Tournaments- food for thought

[Balky]

Its like playing slots. Sometimes no win in several weeks, sometimes several wins in one single day. If some people longterm have more wins than others, thats most probably due to a bigger number of entries. I am mostly not in chat and I am sure there is definitely no connection between participating in chat and the tournament results.
Having no win in hundreds of entries can be frustrating but hey, its free and we have nothing to lose. I rather play those tournaments than exceed my gaming budget.

B.

[funeral979]

Its like playing slots. Sometimes no win in several weeks, sometimes several wins in one single day. If some people longterm have more wins than others, thats most probably due to a bigger number of entries. I am mostly not in chat and I am sure there is definitely no connection between participating in chat and the tournament results.
Having no win in hundreds of entries can be frustrating but hey, its free and we have nothing to lose. I rather play those tournaments than exceed my gaming budget.

B.

I 100% agree. Sometimes you should get lucky and win a few a day, and sometimes you should have no wins maybe for a week or two. But this is just not the case at 3Dice. There are certain players who never go thru the dry spells. Always multiple wins every week.

I am tempted to insert silc's star theory here Wish I had a star by name in tourney play...

[Jasminebed]

I think it is possible that some people are just luckier than others, at least for a spell! According to your theory, I should be winning a lot more tourneys than I do!

There's at least one non-chatter that wins tourneys with great regularity, it's often remarked upon.

If they gave them to people that whined, there should be a few other players winning too!

Not just at 3Dice, but anywhere, if you don't feel you are getting a fair game, it's best to move on.

[rockycatt]

ive won a few turnys there the biggest was 200$ first place in the silver level i got a R F
to put me way ahead and i watched it like a hen on a egg

i love the tenner ones to me there like doing a crossword puzzle and you pretty much can tell right off if your in a great position because of the short stack

i bot in one and got the big hit on Aztec and like the silver level one i felt secure about my position

iv also lost more than ive won i dont like playing 2 or 3 day turny for a 10$ win but im shure
theres others that pass the time and chat away there

this thread makes me remember one night about a year ago i logged on to dice about 3am
i couldn't sleep , i mentioned it to the group i couldn't sleep but id probably be tired as hell in a couple hours

well Enzo must of read it and i got a pm to go to the cashier [from enzo] there was a 50.00
gift ther with no w/r , i then pm'd him back and asked why he gave me 50.00$

he said it will give you something to do fo a couple hours ... now that being said
i dont think that the establishment at dice is anything but straight up

they have even taken measures to quell any cheating like stopping the gamble feature in the tury;s and you must show a zero hit first before you can show a actual hit in chat hunt turnys

theres alway going to be a way to try to take advantage if theres a group cliqe but
it doesnt get any beter than 3 dice for integerity and staying on top of the needs of there playeres
im a player at 3 dice

P S Enzo isent the only one that works there its defenetly a team effort and we all know there first names and they know ours

[zap987]

One can expect on average to win 1 out of 35 tournaments I believe it is. Now I am only guessing here, but I would have to say that even the most hardcore of these 3Dice tournament players play maybe 100 a week (roughly 15 a day....they do have to sleep at some point?) So 400 or so a month. And the same group of players are always winning 25-30 a month. You can do the math.....but the same people are winning more than they should be, all the time.

This assumption is incorrect. If on average 35 players enter every tournament, then some people will a 5% or more chance to win while others will be close to 0%. Just as an example, in a Baccarat/War tournament, anyone that plays Baccarat instead of War has a very small chance to win just because of the table limits difference.

So what about the peak balance no gamble slot tournaments with one game allowed? Here the chance to win for each player will be much closer since there are no choices involved except bet size, some people do play less than max bet and reduce their chances for no good reason. Even in these no skill tournaments the chance to win will differ, the more spins you get the higher the chance to get that good hit that wins you the tournament. Go check any finished tournament of this type and look at the Total Stake column. Notice how the players that win more tournaments will generally have a much higher number here. If I can spin twice as much as many people in the tournament I have a lot higher chance to win compared to them.

[funeral979]

This assumption is incorrect. If on average 35 players enter every tournament, then some people will a 5% or more chance to win while others will be close to 0%. Just as an example, in a Baccarat/War tournament, anyone that plays Baccarat instead of War has a very small chance to win just because of the table limits difference.

So what about the peak balance no gamble slot tournaments with one game allowed? Here the chance to win for each player will be much closer since there are no choices involved except bet size, some people do play less than max bet and reduce their chances for no good reason. Even in these no skill tournaments the chance to win will differ, the more spins you get the higher the chance to get that good hit that wins you the tournament. Go check any finished tournament of this type and look at the Total Stake column. Notice how the players that win more tournaments will generally have a much higher number here. If I can spin twice as much as many people in the tournament I have a lot higher chance to win compared to them.

Actually, I am usually one of the highest wagerers in all the slot tournaments I enter. Unfortunately you wont be able to verify this as I am rarely even in the top 10 so my screenname wont be there. The majority of my wins are non slot tournaments, even though I enter more slot tourneys than non slot tourneys. Wonder why this is so?

[funeral979]

Looking over the last weeks tournament winners, I am still completely amazed.

I notice that no one from 3Dice has come in to comment on the skewed results of these tourneys.

If you just look at last weeks "free" tournaments (the non VIP ones that anyone can join), anyone should be hard pressed to not see something suspicious.

These non VIP tournaments are free for anyone, including non depositors. They typically have about 200 players in each one. So, that would be 60 of these tournaments in a month. On average you should expect to win one every 3-4 months. Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....they are all "peak balance", so it is not necessary to just sit on a win and hope it holds...just keep spinning. Further, these are 12 hours, so pc speed should not be an issue.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well. And a good 75% who win these non VIP tournaments are the same people who win over and over and over again in the VIP ones.

You would think that in these non VIP tournaments that you would see different names all the time winning, since it is a much more diverse group than "the usuals"...and a larger playing field. Plus you would assume that a majority of the VIPs would be busy with their tournaments.

But no.

Its the same group...winning way more than their fair share....and its not just a freak occurance...it happens all the time.

I enter just about all of the non VIP tournaments. I have never placed in a single one. I have made the top 10 maybe twice. And I have a pretty good grasp on which games to play....it doesn't really add up.

[3Dice]

Looking over the last weeks tournament winners, I am still completely amazed.

I notice that no one from 3Dice has come in to comment on the skewed results of these tourneys.

If you just look at last weeks "free" tournaments (the non VIP ones that anyone can join), anyone should be hard pressed to not see something suspicious.

These non VIP tournaments are free for anyone, including non depositors. They typically have about 200 players in each one. So, that would be 60 of these tournaments in a month. On average you should expect to win one every 3-4 months. Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....they are all "peak balance", so it is not necessary to just sit on a win and hope it holds...just keep spinning. Further, these are 12 hours, so pc speed should not be an issue.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well. And a good 75% who win these non VIP tournaments are the same people who win over and over and over again in the VIP ones.

You would think that in these non VIP tournaments that you would see different names all the time winning, since it is a much more diverse group than "the usuals"...and a larger playing field. Plus you would assume that a majority of the VIPs would be busy with their tournaments.

But no.

Its the same group...winning way more than their fair share....and its not just a freak occurance...it happens all the time.

I enter just about all of the non VIP tournaments. I have never placed in a single one. I have made the top 10 maybe twice. And I have a pretty good grasp on which games to play....it doesn't really add up.

Hi Guys,

We've seen these posts more than once .. and investigation has always revealed nothing to be wrong with our tournament system.

So lets add things up one more time .. below are some tournament statistics for funeral, zap and silvniki for 2011.

-------------

zap987

total tournaments played in 2011 : 536
average stake / tourney : $ 12935
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12379 (95.70% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 2.99%
total nr of wins : 29 (5.4% of tourney's played).

silvniki

total tournaments played in 2011 : 1667
average stake / tourney : $ 13317
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12663 (95.08% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 2.82%
total nr of wins : 81 (4.8% of tourney's played).

funeral979

total tournaments played in 2011 : 906
average stake / tourney : $ 12990
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12548 (96.59% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 3.31%
total nr of wins : 41 (4.52% of tourney's played).

---------------

I think the numbers speak quite clearly .. but allow me to add that funeral's response is actually quite common and natural even. It's just the way we are wired - you get beaten by someone and you'll start seeing their name popup all over the place - it doesn't really do that - its just the way our perception works. Even a single day of tournaments means hundreds of names in the highscore lists and we are simply not capabale of memorising all that - so our brain picks out those things that it recognizes.

It's an easy trap to fall for - and we all do it to a certain extent - it helps to be aware of it but even that is no guarantee .. you do have to watch out that a self imposed idea like this doesn't get into the way of fun tho. And - most definitly - don't start accusing people or insinuating cheating on the end of other players or the casino without numbers to back it up.

Funeral, I hope your luck in tourney's continues to be as good as it is - and I hope you wont block yourself from appreciating it - you're winning more than the average number of tournaments - often a sign that you are indeed picking the right games and playing at the right stakes - keep it up

Kindest regards,

Enzo

[funeral979]

Thanks for the reply Enzo.

But with all due respect, my last post was in regards to the non VIP tourneys. Not silv and zaps performance in all tourneys.

At any rate, im not sure how "the numbers speak quite clearly" apply here when we have only done a comparison with 2 other players (and I did have the lowest % here).
Of course I don't expect you to go pull everyones numbers as I am sure it is time consuming...but I don't think much can be gathered from the small sample you provided.

[3Dice]

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well.

It seems to me that you quite clearly defined the sample here. Please take a second and consider that silvniki and zap987 are players just like yourself, who play in our tournaments just like yourself, who win about the same amount of tournaments as you do, who have in fact had a lower RTP in tourney than you did. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if either of them made a post with insinuations that you are cheating (or we are cheating in your advantage) - especially the "maybe they would care to comment again" .. is very rude and you could trust in the fact that a post like that towards you would make me step in and defend you.

Thanks for the reply Enzo.

But with all due respect, my last post was in regards to the non VIP tourneys. Not silv and zaps performance in all tourneys.

At any rate, im not sure how "the numbers speak quite clearly" apply here when we have only done a comparison with 2 other players (and I did have the lowest % here).
Of course I don't expect you to go pull everyones numbers as I am sure it is time consuming...but I don't think much can be gathered from the small sample you provided.

The sample I provided you with includes the area you are suspicious of. This is how you have to do statistics. You can't sit at a roulette wheel for half an hour and when the same number drops in twice in a row say "I want statistics on these last two spins". What those numbers teach us is that the very players you acuse have numbers extremely alike your own.

We continuously run statistics on our tournaments - you can rest assured that even the smallest anomalies there are investigated thoroughly. If we find problems or simply see unbalances - we fix it (e.g. introducing 'no gamble' tournaments etc) - I can however not fix a problem that doesn't exist.

The same player winning 3 or 4 freeroll tourney's in the same week is perfectly within expectations. It wont happen every week - but some weeks it will. All I can do is show you that these players are winning the same amount of tourney's you are.

Regards,

Enzo