Hey 3Dice, how random is this?

[MotorCity68]

Let me start out by saying that 3dice is the only online casino where I play. We have a pretty good player / casino relationship. I don't bitch when I lose and they don't give me a hassle cashing out when I win. So far so good.

I also have a favorite game, Medieval Moolah, which I probably spend ninety percent of my time there playing. Which means that I've probably amassed a couple hundred thousand spins on it.

Now some of you may disagree with me here, but I think you get a real feel for a game after spending that much time on it, and lately something doesn't feel right.

I've noticed that there are a ton of "near misses" now. Combinations that seem less plausible than actually hitting a one in a million payout. A key and four suns on an oddball payline that ends up paying twenty to one. Tons of monster five of a kinds with the middle column just one position off. Now I realize that "near misses" are commonplace online and in the B&M casinos, they are supposed to make us think that we're just about to hit something huge and keep playing. Fair enough, we know your all about making a profit, but it's never been this blatantly obvious (in my opinion) at 3Dice.

Now, so you guys don't think I'm just another sore loser who had a bad run and is trying to get some payback, I would like to present you with some hard data.

Anybody who has played Medieval Moolah knows that the sun is a wild/multiplier symbol. Getting a few of these in the right place usually pays better than the bonus round, the "RIGHT PLACE" being the operative phrase here.

Here are the results of 1120 spins and where the wild symbols fell:

First column: 58 times
Second column: 42 times
Third column: 117 times
Fourth column: 222 times
Fifth column: 177 times

So for me, i was over FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT more likely to catch a wild symbol on the forth column, than on the first or second, where it obviously does a lot more good. That goes far far beyond random deviation.

I pondered for over a week whether or not I would post this, because I truly enjoy playing at 3Dice. I honestly hope that they might have an explanation for this.

So 3Dice, you know who I am.
This session ended at 9:11 Eastern standard time on March 2nd, with a balance of $62.87.

I'm hoping that you'll take the time to respond to this post.

Thanks

[petro]

That looks pretty normal to me.

All that it means is just that reel 3 & 4 contain more wild symbols than the other reels.

OP will find this is pretty standard for most slots.

[MotorCity68]

Well, your the first to respond, but if the general consensus is that this is all perfectly normal, then I guess I'll be sending Enzo a gift basket.

I'll wait and see.

Thanks for your response.

[Repro]

Well, your the first to respond, but if the general consensus is that this is all perfectly normal, then I guess I'll be sending Enzo a gift basket.

I'll wait and see.

Thanks for your response.

I know what you mean and it can be quite annoying sometimes. Same things happens to me a lot with Payola, wilds on reels 3,4 and 5, but no payouts because of a discoball (need 3 for the bonusgame) at the wrong position on reels 1 or 2.

Guess it's just "in the game", because i stilll cashout often there.

BTW i got a $120 hit with Medieval on a $0,60 spin a few days ago. Got a looooooooot of suns

[petro]

If MotorCity68 is interested he can view some reel layouts here; http://www.slotbeaters.com/SlotDataMG.htm

[rainmaker]

Hello.

Yes Petro is right. It looks quite normal.

Randomness does not mean that all of the wheels contains the same amount of wild symbols. Games are designed from a mathematic algorithm that will give the players a certain RTP% in the very long run. How the wheels are put together with symbols are of course a part of this calculation.

But I think it's great that you decided to write this post. You ask a fair question. I'm no math genius, so someone else will probably supplement this.

[jstrike]

Gotta agree with Petro.

The way slots work, both in b&m casinos and online (in theory), is that reels are weighted. What this meant originally was if you had a mechanical slot machine, you might have like 10 items on the reels, but inside each reel is basically a system of gears that makes it more likely to land on one item than on another. Take that up to the electronic level, and what it means is that on reel 1 the wild might be 1/10th as likely as it is on reel 4.

If you're designing a slot, you take into account the weights of paying items and wilds...and if you're designing a multiline slot, you might have to also take into account which reel those weights go on, although usually that doesn't make much difference unless certain reels have more lines intersecting on a single item than other reels do, or unless the slot is counting from left to right or right to left only. Overall, when the slot is designed, it should be done in a way where taking all those wild weights into account the average expected payout is what you publish to the customer. Most casinos don't actually publish the actual weighting of the reels, so you don't actually know what your true odds are, and even if you knew that you'd have to count on the RNG [code that interprets it] being honest and random. But a wild being more likely to come up on one reel as opposed to another is standard for most slots.

The last slot I designed has a 1-weight wild on the first 4 reels and no wild on the 5th, because the wilds work with whatever's there but don't do anything on their own, and because they potentially count twice (like, you can have 3 and 3 on a 5-reel slot if two pairs share a single wild). But other items on the reels have weights ranging from 1 all the way up to 10-times more likely than a wild. The expected payback is still 94.5%. So...I'd say look at your actual win/loss ratio over the course of a few thousand spins, not what each reel actually ends up at, to determine the fairness of the machine.

[Kimsterfl]

That looks pretty normal to me.

All that it means is just that reel 3 & 4 contain more wild symbols than the other reels.

OP will find this is pretty standard for most slots.

Hi Petro,

I often play at 3Dice. I have not personally noticed more wild symbols appearing on reels 4 and 5 (you said 3 and 4, I think you meant to say 4 and 5), in any of the non-classic slot games there, albeit I don't write down the results of each spin.

I believe you would need to find an average based on many thousands of spins and not just several hundred.

Good luck!

Kim aka Wings

[weplant]

Let me start out by saying that 3dice is the only online casino where I play. We have a pretty good player / casino relationship. I don't bitch when I lose and they don't give me a hassle cashing out when I win. So far so good.

I also have a favorite game, Medieval Moolah, which I probably spend ninety percent of my time there playing. Which means that I've probably amassed a couple hundred thousand spins on it.

Now some of you may disagree with me here, but I think you get a real feel for a game after spending that much time on it, and lately something doesn't feel right.

I've noticed that there are a ton of "near misses" now. Combinations that seem less plausible than actually hitting a one in a million payout. A key and four suns on an oddball payline that ends up paying twenty to one. Tons of monster five of a kinds with the middle column just one position off. Now I realize that "near misses" are commonplace online and in the B&M casinos, they are supposed to make us think that we're just about to hit something huge and keep playing. Fair enough, we know your all about making a profit, but it's never been this blatantly obvious (in my opinion) at 3Dice.

Now, so you guys don't think I'm just another sore loser who had a bad run and is trying to get some payback, I would like to present you with some hard data.

Anybody who has played Medieval Moolah knows that the sun is a wild/multiplier symbol. Getting a few of these in the right place usually pays better than the bonus round, the "RIGHT PLACE" being the operative phrase here.

Here are the results of 1120 spins and where the wild symbols fell:

First column: 58 times
Second column: 42 times
Third column: 117 times
Fourth column: 222 times
Fifth column: 177 times

So for me, i was over FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT more likely to catch a wild symbol on the forth column, than on the first or second, where it obviously does a lot more good. That goes far far beyond random deviation.

I pondered for over a week whether or not I would post this, because I truly enjoy playing at 3Dice. I honestly hope that they might have an explanation for this.

So 3Dice, you know who I am.
This session ended at 9:11 Eastern standard time on March 2nd, with a balance of $62.87.

I'm hoping that you'll take the time to respond to this post.

Thanks

I have to say that I am also a Moohlah junkie..Everyone knows that I am always chasing the suns...I thought I was crazy, but also noticed a big change in the last month or so..I know it is a high variance game, but I would at least have some good hits...I have not a decent hit with a sun forever...
Also noticed I would have 4 or 5 suns scattered about and thought , oh good here comes a good one and would land up with 16.00...

I also love 3Dice, I love the customer support...I thank you for bringing it up and lets keep our fingers crossed that we will see the suns paying again....

[weplant]

I am sitting here playing and thinking about my response, while it is true I have been in a real slump at 3Dice, I have realized I am sucking everywhere...I can't get a santa or a deck the hall symbol ..Maybe it is the gambling gods telling me to slow down....