I'm screwed. The dream is dead.

[jstrike]

The business side to this industry is so complex, that you trying to take it all on without through knowledge of the business side, is like someone who isn't a programmer trying to code an online casino; it is not very feasible.

I know. And, if someone were trying to do that, I'd tell them they didn't have a chance in hell. So I do get where you're coming from.

The business side has a steep learning curve, and it makes the technical parts seem easy to me. But it's because I started off thinking I knew all I needed to know. The more I realize I don't know, the more I learn. Maybe that's the point of all this.

About the 9% ...I guess if you figure in the margins paid to license holders and software vendors, then that figure seems low. But 4.5% seems more standard. Either way, you're right, it's the scale that's the major problem. Small scale and low funding means we have to focus on mostly parimutuel games like poker, and the rakes and guarantees have to be very competitive. It could be competitive by virtue of the fact that I don't have to pay software overhead, but because the smallest flat licensing and corporate fees possible are still too much overhead for us percentage-wise, 9% processing would be crippling on top of that.

This is in some way just a matter of the industry maturing and, in the process, choking out the possibility of small (honest) startups.

Still, I don't think you have to go big. Frankly. Anecdotal, but...I used to work at a coffee house, around 1999. It was just big enough to have six small tables inside. Then Starbucks opened two stores within a three block radius of the place. But it didn't go out of business. It changed hours to open at 6 pm and close at 4 am. It's still there. The owner earns a tidy income, basically for hanging out with his friends all night. It's always packed. When I worked there, I used to deal dollar blackjack from behind the counter all night, to four seats at a time, banking it myself. We always had a no-limit poker game going, too, with a steady stream of regulars, 7 days a week. I used to come in on my nights off just to hang out and play.

That's where I'm coming from, and that's the business I'm trying to open. I know it sounds ludicrous to people who are used to this industry... but it would suit me better. I'd rather know everybody at the tables anyway. Wherever it went from there, would be a different conversation for another day.

What I'm saying is, I want to open an eclectic restaurant, and I think you're saying if it ain't ready to be MacDonald's, I'm gonna get eaten alive. I know I don't know much. But I don't completely believe that. I still think there's gotta be a way. I think it because, in my mind, there's a market, and it's worth it to me to find them.

[NicolasJohnson]

I know. And, if someone were trying to do that, I'd tell them they didn't have a chance in hell. So I do get where you're coming from.

The business side has a steep learning curve, and it makes the technical parts seem easy to me. But it's because I started off thinking I knew all I needed to know. The more I realize I don't know, the more I learn. Maybe that's the point of all this.

About the 9% ...I guess if you figure in the margins paid to license holders and software vendors, then that figure seems low. But 4.5% seems more standard. Either way, you're right, it's the scale that's the major problem. Small scale and low funding means we have to focus on mostly parimutuel games like poker, and the rakes and guarantees have to be very competitive. It could be competitive by virtue of the fact that I don't have to pay software overhead, but because the smallest flat licensing and corporate fees possible are still too much overhead for us percentage-wise, 9% processing would be crippling on top of that.

This is in some way just a matter of the industry maturing and, in the process, choking out the possibility of small (honest) startups.

Still, I don't think you have to go big. Frankly. Anecdotal, but...I used to work at a coffee house, around 1999. It was just big enough to have six small tables inside. Then Starbucks opened two stores within a three block radius of the place. But it didn't go out of business. It changed hours to open at 6 pm and close at 4 am. It's still there. The owner earns a tidy income, basically for hanging out with his friends all night. It's always packed. When I worked there, I used to deal dollar blackjack from behind the counter all night, to four seats at a time, banking it myself. We always had a no-limit poker game going, too, with a steady stream of regulars, 7 days a week. I used to come in on my nights off just to hang out and play.

That's where I'm coming from, and that's the business I'm trying to open. I know it sounds ludicrous to people who are used to this industry... but it would suit me better. I'd rather know everybody at the tables anyway. Wherever it went from there, would be a different conversation for another day.

What I'm saying is, I want to open an eclectic restaurant, and I think you're saying if it ain't ready to be MacDonald's, I'm gonna get eaten alive. I know I don't know much. But I don't completely believe that. I still think there's gotta be a way. I think it because, in my mind, there's a market, and it's worth it to me to find them.

Well, lets be clear, are you:

1- looking to just take bets from friends and family
2- looking to set up an online business where you take bets from people you don't know, and who are going to pay upfront with their CC

If it is 1, you might as well just pay a per head shop and book action without too much complication. If it is 2, then it is a whole'nother ball game; you're in the deep sea; like it or not you are competing with everyone else.

You seem to imply there is a middle ground. And if you found it, I really wish you luck. But to me, it sound like you are being unrealistic and it seems like the brick wall of reality is hitting. Sorry to say.

Oh and I fully agree with you on the industry machuring.

[RedAndi]

Just want to say very cool of Nicolas to come in and offer advice and engage in discussion with jstrike on this.
I believe Enzo did in another thread also.

So thumbs up to both for being "cool" industry people

[jstrike]

If it is 1, you might as well just pay a per head shop and book action without too much complication. If it is 2, then it is a whole'nother ball game; you're in the deep sea; like it or not you are competing with everyone else.

It's actually a lot closer to 1 than 2, at least right now. That's a really interesting thought. The software is already built to let agents ("regional chiefs") manage their own players, tournaments, etc. But I always assumed that deposits / withdrawals would go through a central system, and that the regional chiefs would just get a cut. I have it so that when a chief comps one of their players, the amount comes out of his earnings...and likewise, rakes can be divided up on the backend even if ten chiefs had ten players on the same table.

I guess I could make the whole thing into a credit system with very little tweaking... heck, maybe that's the way to go. Charge per head and let agents manage funding in and out? I never considered that.

Good of you to engage in this, by the way. Thanks for the food for thought.

edit: I just realized why there aren't PPH shops that let one agent's players play against another's. Duhhh...