Club World Raises Minimum Bet on Slots

[jas2587]

As is the case in our casinos. Our VIP players have the same minimum bet as when they first started.

I am no means a high roller I deposit $50 max an sometimes less
so why am I at the $1 an $1.25 min bet

an when I 1st started I could bet 1 penny if I wanted too

you make no sense at all
Cindy

[all4greed]

all4greed – I responded to your PM as soon as I received it so I didn’t feel the need to send you the same text again by email.

I wouldn't expect you to, I got it fixed and have played at my typical level (min).

It does irk me that each individual player at this forum has to initiate a PM when you clearly have seen people bring up the raised limits issue without you popping in here (until now) to address it. That is poor customer service and leads to a poor casino reputation.

Has customer service been instructed to contact those players who were incorrectly thrown into a different catagory and told it's a software thing, sorry can't change it? As you can see just by reading here, it's pissed people off to the extent they uninstall your casino.

[ksech]

Perhaps this is another tactic to help prevent gambling problem and to protect the "student". Raise the minimum bet size so players who enjoy playing at the lower bet will uninstall/ close accounts on the casino group.

It seems to me that the RTG operators are capable of changing too much. Now they can change bet size according to their algorithm for individual players? It surely isn't a good business move to attract new players.

And personally, it seems as if it takes a small miracle to get the rep for this group involved. I know Bryan has stated previously that it's not the reps "job" to post on the forum, but it would seem (at least in my small brain), that they would want to do all they can to KEEP the players they have. I'm sure some of the players closed accounts when the "student clause" debacle was going on. And now this?

I do appreciate they saw the "light" and reworded their T&Cs concerning the student issue, and they clarified the Markham ban. But it seems as if PR is wearing blinders and they really need to shed them and take care of the players before they HAVE no players to worry about...

[vinylweatherman]

When you have as many account holders as we do it becomes impractical to administer each one individually so we have developed an algorithm to help us do this. The algorithm is pretty good and will tend to keep players in comparable groups, but a recent update to the algorithm has resulted in some movement so a very small minority of players may have noticed a change in their table limits.

The main application of this algorithm is to determine VIP advantages – comp point rates, promotions and bonuses, daily and monthly VIP rewards, deposit limits and yes, table limits. You may have noticed that on your first deposit the maximum blackjack bet available is $100 but most of you now will have at least $250, or even up to $1000.

The reduced spread of betting on the slots is purely to reduce the impact of bonus advantage players who employ the ‘big hit and grind’ tactic. The reduced maximum coin size coupled with the increased minimum coin size makes this tactic much more difficult.

Being able to effectively manage deposit and betting limits is a fundamental part of managing a casino. There is nothing sinister about it and every online casino operator has this functionality regardless of the platform they operate on.

AudiManinBoro – you requested your withdrawal on Friday and it is now only Monday so it is a little unfair to accuse us of slow paying you. I am sure it will be done today. (Edit: thanks for updating the thread with your payment being processed )

all4greed – I responded to your PM as soon as I received it so I didn’t feel the need to send you the same text again by email.

Nate – experience has taught me that it is best to stay out of these discussions. People have their preconceptions which are almost impossible to change.

.... so why the huge fuss all of a sudden from low rolling players who have suddenly seen this change on their accounts.

This has been made worse by CS trying to explain away the changes by what appears to be a "pack of lies" to the more knowledgeable player.

How come ONLY RTG casinos have to resort to this "cloak and dagger" stuff? MGS casinos do NOT raise the mimimum bet just because a player is using a bonus, and the bonuses are cashable too.

This would NOT have become yet another controversial issue had CW simply "come clean" with players from the outset. This thread developed because CS were brushing aside concerns, claiming it was "just the software", and that nothing could be done about it.

It turns out that this was caused by an algorithm that was designed to LOWER the chances of winning by players who claimed bonuses, and used the full betting spread to maximise their chances. Rather than tell these players the TRUTH, it seems the policy was to tell them a load of BS about "it's the software" in the hope that they would just accept the change without further argument.
This didn't work once players shared their concerns, and it became clear this was a TARGETTED move aimed at "advantage players" as identified by a recently updated algorithm.

Hence, any player with the new raised minimum bet has been classed as "advantage player" by the algorithm, which has made this "defensive" reduction in the spread in order to make it harder for them to win from future bonuses.


This DID really need an early reply from the rep, because CS were giving out the WRONG information about this change, which actually made things look WORSE than they turned out to be.

The problem is when a BS excuse is given by CS to an EXPERIENCED player, who KNOWS they have not been told the truth, and will therefore start digging for a reason as to WHY it was necessary to conceal this truth from players.

This setting has probably always been there, just as it has been with MGS software. The problem is in how it is USED by an operator, and how they EXPLAIN any changes to players.

[triple777s]

You know what I am sick and tired of?

Companies using the excuse....its the software, we have no control over it.....

The software does NOT program itself! Humans program the software to do whatever they WANT it to do! God, i get so sick of this cop out!

Cheers

[all4greed]

You know what I am sick and tired of?

Companies using the excuse....its the software, we have no control over it.....

The software does NOT program itself! Humans program the software to do whatever they WANT it to do! God, i get so sick of this cop out!

Cheers

It's also not wise to cite a software issue if the reason can be debunked in 2 minutes by logging into another RTG casino and not having the same problem...

[rainmaker]

Good post vinylweatherman.



I wish I was a rep on this forum. Then I would have the privilege to just say:


"experience has taught me that it is best to stay out of these discussions. People have their preconceptions which are almost impossible to change."


Blame the players for using bonuses in a wrong way. Blame the members in the forum for being ignorant.

[vinylweatherman]

Good post vinylweatherman.



I wish I was a rep on this forum. Then I would have the privilege to just say:


"experience has taught me that it is best to stay out of these discussions. People have their preconceptions which are almost impossible to change."


Blame the players for using bonuses in a wrong way. Blame the members in the forum for being ignorant.

It's more the getting caught out because the members are NOT ignorant

Another RTG casino has managed to make a perfectly innocent feature available in most other softwares seem rogue simply by how they have USED it, and then presented it to players.

Go Wild casino use the MGS version of this feature to reduce the max limits when a bonus is being used. There is no BS though, they are honest about it, and it simply acts to prevent players from breaching the terms and conditions about big bets. The limits raise to the usual values once play on the bonus is complete. I didn't notice any adjustments to the minimum limits.

VIP players can also get raised limits once they have been verified, and the casino feels they can responsibly play at that level.

Player groups are how most operators manage their customer base, but this is the first time we have seen evidence of a category that is LOWER than that of a new and unverified player. Usually, a new player starts out on the lowest category, and then advances towards the highest as they continue to deposit and play.

This also shows that RTG casinos CAN actually make these changes to individual players if they choose, which was one of the "revelations" made by phynqster a while back about how Virtual casinos would continually mess around with the settings of individual players to put them off a winning streak. The official line from RTG then was "can't be done", but this seems to have been a lie, it CAN be done, but most operators "can't be arsed" to manage accounts at this level, preferring instead to use player groupings and algorithms to manage the settings automatically.

The problem is that many players have little idea of this, and think of an online casino as having the SAME games and settings for ALL the customers that "walk in to the main floor". Whilst B & M casinos do have the special "VIP areas", they are clearly marked, and a customer is in no doubt as to which "settings" apply based on whether they have walked on to the main gaming floor, or into the VIP area.

If I walked into a pub, and played the fruit machine at the back by the jukebox, I would expect it to be on the SAME settings for ALL the players who played it. I would be pretty shocked if I discovered the landlord had a switch behind the bar that would flip the machine to different settings when certain customers began to play that were felt to "win too often". This would also be ILLEGAL. This is exactly the "shock" some players at CWC had when they discovered that the "machine by the jukebox" had a $1 minimum bet when THEY played it, yet a 20c minimum when a DIFFERENT player played it. It made them feel that CWC had a virtual "switch behind the bar" that applied only to SOME players. When asked, they were told it was "just the software", which is the SAME answer you would get from the landlord of a pub who had a switch behind the bar to mess with a fruit machine.

[Nifty29]

I think CWC have done the wrong thing here.

If the casino wants to adjust bet limits to encourage higher bets, then do it at the top end...or, if it is absolutely necessary to increase the minimum bet, then it should be adjust by a reasonable factor. Increasing the minimum by 400% is not reasonable.

The method of 'big hit then grind' has been mathematically shown not to be the best method of beating bonuses (ask KK he used to employ this method but has changed his strategy), so why does the casino need to be 'protected' against it? Surely you could just limit the maximum bet amount when using a bonus? It would negate the need to adjust minimum bets at all.

Sorry Tom, but it doesn't make sense to me based on your explanation.

I also believe that if specific players are having their minimum bets adjusted they should be informed via email. Since your algorith places then in a 'group', then I am sure a group email could be sent. I think it shows a lack of respect for players....if what you are doing is all above board, then what is wrong with giving these players the courtesy of an explanation?

The only thing that has been achieved by doing all this on the quiet is quite a few annoyed customers and the appearance that something 'sneaky' is going on.

CWC is a stand up operator IMO, but in this case they got it wrong.

[LHofsdal]

I really think there is something going on with this group. I received a 30 dollar chip at Manhattan slots. Managed a withdrawal, requested it Monday. Get an e-mail from Daniel, need my prepaid visa card photos. No biggie, Hubby got this card for me to gamble with, alot easier to use, sent them in. Within minutes of sending them in Iveta, the cashier e-mails me says they were approved.

I sent in an e-mail 15 minutes later asking if my withdrawal would be processed that day. This was at 8:45 AM EST. Surprise, e-mail was never answered until 2:35 AM this morning EST. Iveta tells me it should be processed today, 2/9. At 10:30 AM today still have not received it.

Now I know the cashiers leaves at 11 or soon after. I contact support, and Alex tries to tell me that the cashier is not in today. It will be processed tomorrow. So I tell him that is funny because Iveta the cashier e-mailed me at 2:35 AM. So why wasn't my withdrawal taken care of then. (This is the part I love) He replies: Each cashier handles something different. Iveta was the one who approved my cc verifications. (She does not handle processing withdrawals, even though she is the one that told me it would be processed today).

This to me, the lying, the cover ups is just unacceptable. My account also has the wager raised, until I PM'ed Tom. I am by no means a high roller either. So how can so many of us get caught up in this debacle?

I am starting to think, this group is losing its credibility with me. To many unacceptable things are happening in a short time span. Something is definitely happening here. Only time will tell I guess. I would really hate to see this group start pulling crap like the rogue casinos, because I did/do like them. Just getting really cautious now, because of all the "Mishaps" lately.

Just my 2 cents.

All the best,
LH