RTG software backend issues - RTP etc.

[silcnlayc]

Just to clarify:

1) I'm not a software engineer, I'm a game designer (I do the design and mathematics, other people do the implementation)
2) Our company designed/designs and QA's the reel series slots on an ongoing basis

Woooof

Have you played the games you designed for any length of time to see how it was implemented by others?

When did you first start to design these games for RTG?

So, being privvy to the back end after implementation is not one of your duties or to check to see if games are playing as intended?

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[DogBoy001]

Have you played the games you designed for any length of time to see how it was implemented by others?

When did you first start to design these games for RTG?

So, being privvy to the back end after implementation is not one of your duties or to check to see if games are playing as intended?

.

The first reel series games went live in 2004

And yes, the games are played extensively (though occasional bugs do creep through, mainly obscure display glitches)

Multi-batch spin tests for the different RTP's are also used to verify mathematical accuracy (as tests such as this can quickly show any problems with the theoretical maths)
Taken together, these provide a pretty good picture of how things have been implemented.

Woooof

[Nate]

OK, so now we have a dilemma or sorts.

On the one hand, we have 4OAK's anonymous 'source' who tells him that not only can RTG operators increase the house edge to as much as 80%, but they can also do it on a per-coupon or per-player basis.

On the other hand, we have a software engineer, who works/worked with RTG games and helped design them, who states that this is not possible.

Unless this mysterious person comes out and provides some evidence or explains it to us in detail like Dogboy has, I just don't see who we can give 4OAK's claims any creedence at all - it is just hearsay, and possibly from someone with an agenda of some kind. Do I know that for sure? Well, no, because we don't know who it is. At this point, it is just 'some guy' who told someone some things that cannot be substantiated by anyone.

I was willing to keep an open mind when the claims first surfaced, but I must admit it seemed very unlikely at the time and, now that Dogmeister has stated it cannot happen, it's about as likely as Virtual Casino paying in 24 hours.

We sometimes overlook the fact that casinos need winners. Who goes back to a casino where they 'never win' (NB this is not the same as 'never cashout').

Someone else also mentioned (in another thread AFAIK) that if these kinds of underhanded and dishonest activities were being carried out on a regular basis as some suggest, then surely after 10 years there would be hundreds if not thousands of p*ssed off ex-employees who would jump at the chance to bring down the people who sacked them - and yet we hear virtually nothing at all. Just a few whackjobs like CasinoJack(ass) and others who couldn't lie straight in bed.

I'll take the word of someone who has established some credibility and respect around here over some unknown person from who knows where any day of the week.


@4OAK - you do keep saying you don't have any proof. Why not ask your 'contact' for some? Surely they could provide something without identifying themselves. Copy of some kind of owner manual etc, or something like that. I really find it hard to accept that there is absolutely nothing concrete available that would validate what you say.

Ahh Nifty... ever the Kangaroo - Real befitting avatar

No offence, but why do you JUMP all over matters that could be ignored if you feel that they are not justified? 4OAK said he can't prove it... its just that...

You do not need to accept anything he says. He doesn't ask anyone to challenge it either. He has an opinion (be it hearsay). You can't prove or disprove anything Dogboy001 or 4OAK is saying without your own evidence.
Dogboy001 has explained to you in detail but has not afforded evidence that what he says is in fact true... How can you take his comments at face value and discredit another forum member even though no evidence was supplied by Dogboy001 (No disrespect intended here).

If Dogboy001 has posted screenshots of the RTP settings, please direct me to them... I will take note and it will justify why you dont need evidence to back his posts.

With regards to disgruntled employees, I do not believe that what they are doing is 'illegal'. I do believe that whatever adjustments take place are in the best interest of the Casino and NOT the player. It is in the interest of maximising profits and minimising losses. It is in the interest of offering a game at the lowest possible returns to push up revenue wherever possible... No conspiracy here for 1000's of employees to come out and scream. As pointed out in a previous thread - There is a 'SuperUser' account that is available. Normal employees do not have access. i suppose this cuts the 1000's to under 10?

@Dogboy001

My post is intended to point out that no evidence was supplied from either end, yet forum members are continually discredited for their posts while others are thanked...

Can you kindly elaborate on the Product design. After you have designed the game and it is mathematically sound - Who implements the game into the RTG Software Package and programs the options for changes in RTP?

Nate

[silcnlayc]

@Dogboy001

My post is intended to point out that no evidence was supplied from either end, yet forum members are continually discredited for their posts while others are thanked...

Can you kindly elaborate on the Product design. After you have designed the game and it is mathematically sound - Who implements the game into the RTG Software Package and programs the options for changes in RTP?

Nate

Thank you Nate, for asking my next question. Once it leaves the QC (Quality contol testing), do you have any other interaction with the product once it is received by the entity that will launch it? The reason I ask this is because, as a computer/laptop builder...I know how much testing is involved in a product to make sure it is 99.9% bug free before giving it to the enduser.

Now, once I configure the product to the request of the person using it , I have NO control on how the enduser will adjust the configuration to perform the way they want it by adding/removing some features that I have installed for it to work the way it was INTENDED.

What I would like to know, once the product reaches the destination, and it is out of your hands, how can you be sure they have not continued to tinker with it just a tad more for their benifit (this relates to all the obvious updates)? Do you actually go back as an enduser and play these games after releasing them to the owners to make sure nothing has been changed and they play as they were intended? Would you have access to the "backend" after releasing the product to check to make sure "nothing has changed" between your creating/testing and releasing vs their acceptance and launching?

I have a set standard for each computer/laptop to show the exact configurations ...so I would know just what was modified if the product fails at any given time. Do you keep this on hand when re-testing your product as an end user to see if anything was modified?

I still believe, that many things have been changed in the last few years. To say they haven't , I ask how you would know this without being privvy to the "backend" at this time after launching without the specs you set the product at and comparing it from the testing and releasing stage.

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[RedAndi]

Been following this discussion, interesting.

Just want to add on the issue of ex employees not speaking out-
I have to assume people who have access to certain delicate information likely have to sign confidentiality agreements.
I doubt many former employees will risk legal retribution from these companies (not to mention probable blacklisting within their industry which will more or less kill future job opportunities) just to come to an online forum and start dropping bombs.
Any company that has uniquely designed/engineered products makes you sign these, would imagine a place like RTG does also.

[DogBoy001]

Can you kindly elaborate on the Product design. After you have designed the game and it is mathematically sound - Who implements the game into the RTG Software Package and programs the options for changes in RTP?

There are simulation tests conducted prior to integration, just based off the theoretical mathematics.
However, spin testing and most of the QA happens after integration by RTG, not before.

Woooof

[all4greed]

There was an issue with display of non-picked prizes, where it was apparently showing non-picked prizes using an even distribution chance, rather than the actual pick prize chance.
This should have been fixed though, and non-picked prizes should use the same probability table as the picked prize.

As with most pick prize features, in order to balance RTP there is not always an equal chance of awarding each possible outcome (e.g.: If a pick may award 2, 3, 5, 10 or 100 free games, it's pretty likely that the chance to get 100 free games is much lower than the chance to get lesser amounts).

Texan Tycoon is in this category.
For a 3 scatter trigger, for instance, there is a much higher chance to get 8, 10 or 15 games versus the 25.
This changes if triggering on 4 scatters, with no chance to get 8 free games, and a good chance to get 25.
On 5 scatters you will always get 25.

Woooof

So if 3 scatters show up and I pick 8 spins and the other two scatters reveal say a 15 and a 25, could I have actually chosen the 25 by picking that specific scatter?

Sorry for being technically dense...

[vinylweatherman]

Been following this discussion, interesting.

Just want to add on the issue of ex employees not speaking out-
I have to assume people who have access to certain delicate information likely have to sign confidentiality agreements.
I doubt many former employees will risk legal retribution from these companies (not to mention probable blacklisting within their industry which will more or less kill future job opportunities) just to come to an online forum and start dropping bombs.
Any company that has uniquely designed/engineered products makes you sign these, would imagine a place like RTG does also.

This is why it seems SO ODD that there are all these "insiders" emerging from the woodwork to make these claims of dark practises within RTG and it's operators. A CREDIBLE employee would NOT breach his own contract, and the employee of a rogue operation would worry about extra- judicial repercussions (such as having their legs broken).

[4 of a kind]

Dogboy001,

Based on your knowledge there are 3 different RTP settings available and of course with minor variants. If a casino changed the RTP setting lets say from 95% to 91%, how long would it take for a technician to verify the change was successful and the 91% RTP change is accurate?

Since it would be obvious when an operator is altering and mixing up the 3 settings the RTP would fall somewhere between 91 and 98%. So during testing is the only requirement for RTP ratings is to fall somewhere between 91 and 98%?

Putting aside what any software provider might want their highest setting to be; (like RTG we know would be 91%) do you by chance actually know what any online regulators would actually allow the highest settings to be?

Since as far as you know RTG’s highest setting is 91%, is their any chance what so ever beyond your knowledge that their could be a higher one available your not privy too?

If an operator were in fact able to set their RTP below 91%, and decided to run a coupon special for a weekend and use this lower setting, but return it back to 91% on Sunday evening after it expires how could anyone to include technicians know this took place? Even if a player hit the Random Jackpot during this time that wouldn't matter as far as the quick income goes for the casino from the coupon special since that money pool was never theirs anyway. The amount of spins over one weekend would never be enough to confirm anything.

[4 of a kind]

This is why it seems SO ODD that there are all these "insiders" emerging from the woodwork to make these claims of dark practises within RTG and it's operators.

How many different insiders are you aware of ?