ID verification before first depo: Would it bother you?

[jstrike]

Alright... next on the list here is the id verification question.

I personally hate having to go through hoops to verify my ID when I want to cash out of a site. I also don't really understand how that makes a casino much safer, since if the first deposit was a fraud, then they're on the hook for it anyway. I get why they do it, not wanting to drive new players away. I just think maybe it's a little shortsighted.

So here's what I got in mind. I'd like to know how players here would feel about this:

At some point, we're gonna have to check ID, so we oughta be up front and do it before the first deposit. But, just like I hate faxing my passport and credit card out to God-knows-who's gonna pick it up off some costa rican fax machine, I don't expect anyone else wants to do that either. So to verify your ID, you can click a skype link on the deposit form, or go to google chat or bonjour or AIM and make a video call the casino. You have to have a webcam. You video chat with one of our reps, who answers any questions the player has about the site, and asks the player to hold up a photo ID to her camera, so we can take a snapshot of it and match it to the player's face. Good as Vegas. As long as there's nothing that seems fake about the ID or the IP the player's calling from, the player's verified in less than 3 minutes for all depos & withdrawals. And never needs to be verified again unless there's some kind of problem where we think someone else might have gotten into the account. And the player gets to meet a casino rep face to face, be welcomed to the site in a human kind of way, and we get to meet the player and know who our customers are.

What do you think? Would that kind of thing make you more comfortable or less making a first deposit?

[MangoJ]

How long do you want your customers to wait for a video chat ?
They may wait 2 minutes before they walk off with (your) money.
So you need 24h service with more than a single operator.

Second: How do you judge a fake ID card ? Webcams may give you sub-megapixel resoluion. Together with poor lightning you won't see anything.

[jstrike]

What I'm thinking is, we have at least one rep online just for this, 24/7 from the time we open, and more as needed. Each conversation can be very short. There's also a central phone number for support or if no one's answering the video call.

The ID has to be readable, but I'm not worried about having a perfect image to check whether it's fake (it's easier to make a fake ID with photoshop and fax it, than show a physical fake to the camera anyway). The actual verification has more to do with reading the behavior of the player in a face to face conversation. I wrote a script, kind of, that doesn't really even involve questions...more just a selection of casual comments the reps can make, and see the response. You know, stuff like "Oh! You're a Pisces?" -- when we know from their ID that they'd be a Gemini if they were telling the truth. Things that ordinary people wouldn't notice, that would only throw someone off guard if they were trying to pass off a fraudulent ID or credit card. The idea came from reading about how El Al does airport security. So it's a lot more about our reading from a personal meeting, and less about the actual ID, which could be fake either way. Which is how Vegas does it anyway... I know, 'cause I used to gamble on a fake ID there when I was a kid. Self confidence is king...but sooner or later, they'll get the drop on you.

[PenDragyn21]

As someone who usually sends their documentation in before depositing, I don't mind upfront verification. I do mind being required to have a webcam. This is a whole different hassle than finding a photocopier and fax machine (or online free fax service) or e-mail and scanner/cell phone/digital camera/direct photocopier to pdf/e-mail. (Poor communication casino's part makes this seems like more a hassle than it is.)
Verification by webcam either requires me to go out and buy something I really don't want and have no use for other than this. I don't care how cheap they are, I'll either have to brave malls or wait for one arrive in the mail along with all the normal shipping fees and problems. Using someone else's webcam may cause other issues because it will have a different IP address than the computer I plan to play on.

Natasha

[jstrike]

Thanks for the feedback, Natasha. Good to know.
I didn't know anybody made a habit of sending ID first even when it's not required. It makes a lot of sense.

I'm thinking if people don't have a webcam, I should set up a fax line and then ask them to call customer service for a quick conversation after they've sent in their ID. That's almost as good, although it would be nice to see everybody in person...

[Seventh777]

After just making my 1st withdrawal with 32Red I rang their customer service up, just to see if I needed to send in any documents, and the rather cute sounding rep replied `No, that`s fine, we have already verified you`, that is why MG = head>shoulders>above>rest imo, any merchants dealing with cash transactions have so many tools at their disposal to verify identities (electoral role, credit agencies, etc, etc).

It really is way over me why this beyond annoying obstacle is put there in the 1st place, it has become nothing more than fuel for the Rogue casino`s to burn, delaying paying out winners whilst using this aspect to their benefit, and keeping hold of peoples cash for as long as they possibly can.

None of the top UK casinos - Ladbrokes, Virgin, Sky to name but three ask for documentation, and neither did any MG casino i`ve ever cashed out at, if these casinos that press for docs upon withdrawals or upon registration, are so concerned about fraud, money laundering, under age gambling, then why are they so easily satisfied upon receiving documents that can be freely bought on the internet?.

Unless you are standing there face to face with the person whom is pleading their case, photo id`s (easily bought online just try googling it), utility bills (pulled from peoples trash cans), credit/debit cards (borrowed from big brother/sister/friend), mean nothing, seriously.... What do they prove?.

[greasemonkey]

I don't mind doc verification the way it is done now EXCEPT that it is just dishonest to ask for them AFTER deposits and before payouts. This is done under the guise of "protection". That is stupid and obvious. The protection should be done prior to them accepting deposits. They should NOT accept one deposit prior to getting documents. They wont because they want to keep your money. Make you jump through hoops (club world) and hopefully your addiction kicks in and you lose before they pay you.

It is dishonest and scummy to take a deposit without docs but not make a payout.

[P.V.]

After just making my 1st withdrawal with 32Red I rang their customer service up, just to see if I needed to send in any documents, and the rather cute sounding rep replied `No, that`s fine, we have already verified you`, that is why MG = head>shoulders>above>rest imo, any merchants dealing with cash transactions have so many tools at their disposal to verify identities (electoral role, credit agencies, etc, etc).

It really is way over me why this beyond annoying obstacle is put there in the 1st place, it has become nothing more than fuel for the Rogue casino`s to burn, delaying paying out winners whilst using this aspect to their benefit, and keeping hold of peoples cash for as long as they possibly can.

None of the top UK casinos - Ladbrokes, Virgin, Sky to name but three ask for documentation, and neither did any MG casino i`ve ever cashed out at, if these casinos that press for docs upon withdrawals or upon registration, are so concerned about fraud, money laundering, under age gambling, then why are they so easily satisfied upon receiving documents that can be freely bought on the internet?.

Unless you are standing there face to face with the person whom is pleading their case, photo id`s (easily bought online just try googling it), utility bills (pulled from peoples trash cans), credit/debit cards (borrowed from big brother/sister/friend), mean nothing, seriously.... What do they prove?.

They are obviously satisfied with their internal checks done during registration.

Address validation, name and address check, home phone number check, date of birth database check, IP address check, fraud sanctions and AMI alert check. Just to name a few.

The above type internal checks help but in addition sites take it a step further by requesting ID, proof of address, employment, utility bill for hard copy proof. Most hold this information on file.

32 Red has proof of ID listed and by fax. This puts them in a position where they could still ask you for a hard copy if they feel the need. http://www.32red.com/responsible-gam...of-of-age.html

Getting back to jstrike's initial question. I don't like the idea of verification by a video cam. I think most people would feel that this was too personal of an approach.

Also people can have a picture ID which is valid but their appearance or current state might make them look much different when viewing them from a cam holding the ID.

[skiny]

Can I be the person video verifying the IDs? PLEASE?

"Hold your ID up higher ma'am. Higher. Sorry Higher. Still can't see it. Get up on your chair."

"Sorry buddy, you don't pass. And put some pants on or I'm calling your wife."

"Hey, it's true! The camera does put on 10 lbs."

"I'm not accepting any deposits until you get a haircut... Hurry back."

"Your account says you're 28 ma'am. Was that a typo?"

"LOOK BEHIND YOU!!. Just kidding."

"Hey, you're the chick from Starbucks! Now I know where you live. "

"Your account says Arkansas. Could you point the camera out your window please?"

"Hmm. The image is coming in upside down for some reason. Could you turn your chair around and tip your head back 180 degrees?"

"Mom?!!!.... Oh, sorry sir."

Hell, I could do that all day and then some.

[3mptyseat]

If the casino were asking to see my bank statement and all my cc's before I made a deposit, I might be suspicious. But I would gladly pre-identify myself during the registration process...