How would you feel if a bonus was structured like this?

[jstrike]

Okay...first post in the "I'm starting a casino, tell me what you'd like to see" series... first off, thanks for the welcome here and let me know if I'm posting this to the wrong board.

I can't afford to give out major bonuses at first, and I don't want to attract people who are going to just come in to play a bonus through and then jet. At the same time, I don't think it's fair for a casino to give a bonus and then require an absurd number of playthroughs or even worse, withhold winnings on the bonus in the same way. So I think I hit on a formula that will be attractive to real players and unattractive to scrapers. Tell me what you think:

We keep track of the player's total bets over all time. We ask for 15 playthroughs of a bonus, and one playthrough of a deposit, and the formula is very simple.

((deposits-withdrawals)+(bonus*15)-totalbets)/15 = current withholding.

So if a player puts in $100 and gets a $25 bonus, her initial withholding is $31.67. The beauty of it is that if she bets $25 and wins, she can withdraw the winnings immediately -- her account now has $150 and her withholding goes down to $30, so she can take out $120 right away.

Or, lets say a player already has played $500 in total bets on a previous $100 deposit. She could get that $25 bonus and cash it immediately with no withholding or playthroughs, since they're already covered.

On the other hand, if in the first case she has that $100+$25 and loses it all on the first bet, she'd still have $23.33 withheld on her account the next time she deposited (plus 1/15th of whatever the next deposit was), until she'd played $23.33 * 15 in bets.

So what do you think? Do you see problems in this system? Would it appeal to you as a player, and would it make you more loyal to the casino, knowing that once you built up your total bets, future bonuses would be free money? Any and all advice is welcome!

[ksech]

Welcome to the forum...
Ahhh, you lost me after your thank you, but I've been up for almost 24 hrs so not much is making sense right now. I'm sure some who enjoy using bonuses will chime in with their opinions.

[liquuid_fusion]

You're gonna end up losing lots of money unless your games have a HA of about 7%

Or you don't give out much bonus funds.

Also:

On the other hand, if in the first case she has that $100+$25 and loses it all on the first bet, she'd still have $23.33 withheld on her account the next time she deposited (plus 1/15th of whatever the next deposit was), until she'd played $23.33 * 15 in bets.

This is a very bad idea because it encourages people to go to another casino instead where there will be no restrictions on their deposit.

[X-Raided]

Okay...first post in the "I'm starting a casino, tell me what you'd like to see" series... first off, thanks for the welcome here and let me know if I'm posting this to the wrong board.

I can't afford to give out major bonuses at first, and I don't want to attract people who are going to just come in to play a bonus through and then jet. At the same time, I don't think it's fair for a casino to give a bonus and then require an absurd number of playthroughs or even worse, withhold winnings on the bonus in the same way. So I think I hit on a formula that will be attractive to real players and unattractive to scrapers. Tell me what you think:

We keep track of the player's total bets over all time. We ask for 15 playthroughs of a bonus, and one playthrough of a deposit, and the formula is very simple.

((deposits-withdrawals)+(bonus*15)-totalbets)/15 = current withholding.

So if a player puts in $100 and gets a $25 bonus, her initial withholding is $31.67. The beauty of it is that if she bets $25 and wins, she can withdraw the winnings immediately -- her account now has $150 and her withholding goes down to $30, so she can take out $120 right away.

Or, lets say a player already has played $500 in total bets on a previous $100 deposit. She could get that $25 bonus and cash it immediately with no withholding or playthroughs, since they're already covered.

On the other hand, if in the first case she has that $100+$25 and loses it all on the first bet, she'd still have $23.33 withheld on her account the next time she deposited (plus 1/15th of whatever the next deposit was), until she'd played $23.33 * 15 in bets.

So what do you think? Do you see problems in this system? Would it appeal to you as a player, and would it make you more loyal to the casino, knowing that once you built up your total bets, future bonuses would be free money? Any and all advice is welcome!

IMO, I found it all to be confusing, unappealing and flat-out silly.
(No offense)

When I gamble, I only care about how much I'm up, and how
much I'm down. I don't want to be linked to bonus jargon
that confuses me and rejects my temptation to withdraw when I'm
up. Bonuses shouldn't be math equations. Stick to the basics, jstrike.

As a matter of fact, bonuses IMO are worthless... There, I said it

[silcnlayc]

X-Raided: As a matter of fact, bonuses IMO are worthless... There, I said it

Um, yea what X-Raided said....

If you feel you MUST give a bonus, why not just a basic 10% depost bonus with 5x playthrough and call it even just to get visitors...anything other than that...you might as well be just like any other joe out there offering games IMO...some live by bonuses, others feel bonuses actually take away from thier winning experience since the casino MUST try to make up all the freebies they give out...someone has to cough up the freebies...I actually think they hurt everyone in the long run the way they work now...those that take a bonus must be obsorbed by those that do not by the casinos bottom line...

So all in all, EVERYONE ends up losing ITLR by taking bonuses....

.

[jstrike]

I agree with you, X. I think bonuses are a bunch of bull, and especially when they come with a lot of rules...and players like you are the guys I want to have, guys who want to just come and find a good game. In fact, I was never planning on doing any bonuses at all, just a really good player points system. But there's so much bonus junk out there now that I think I have to have some kinda promotional thing I can do too.

I think maybe I didn't explain myself well. Basically it's supposed to be waaay more simple than what other casinos do. I'm making it sound too complicated. All it is is, when you get a bonus, you also get a withholding for that bonus until you play it 15 times. The bonus and the withholding stay with you whether you win or lose. You keep all the winnings, but the withholding stays on your account even if you lose the bonus.

@liquid: I don't think this will drive the serious players away, and I don't think I'll lose money (the HA averages around 2.5% depending on the game, but more like 1.6% on Roulette, possibly as low as 0.5% on some of the new games I wrote based on perfect play, and anywhere from 3% to 10% on slots depending on how people play; standard 5% rake on poker), but as you pointed out, that's exactly because with this kind of bonus I can't go offering big huge 100%+ cash on deposits. Actually, I'm only planning on giving out 25% bonuses, up to $100 on a $400 deposit. Maybe 35% for VIP's. But the way this figures, I'd probably lose about half of every 25% bonus I give away if players play perfectly. If having a later withholding drives away the people who are only there for the bonus, that's good...I'm still keeping 6% on deposits until they're played through once, so I should break a few dollars short of even on those players, but meanwhile I got the word out. And at the same time, it's not sticky, it's not "phantom", it's just really simple and rolling depending on how much a player bets over time. At least, that's what I'm thinking.

[rockycatt]

i dont take bonuses xcept at 3dice 5x thats a fair

but isn't some have two tare coin box you can cash out as long as you haven't exhausted your deposite seems to me [i might be wrong ] but microgaming was /is like that please chime in if im off base

[X-Raided]

i dont take bonuses xcept at 3dice 5x thats a fair

Yeah, I figured out the method of madness behind 3Dice's
low 5, 10 & 15 X WR on the Deposit + Bonus...

It's because it's unlikely you'll get to surpass the low
wagering requirements there to make a cash-out.

[skiny]

You know what would be a real bonus? Not going broke in 20 minutes.

[Jasminebed]

I think your proposed system sounds too complicated. When systems are complicated, possibilities for misinterpretations abound. You plan on doing your own support, and yet you are having problems explaining clearly and concisely to experienced players.

It sounds like your casino will mostly consist of table games, and most casinos carry higher playthrough for table games.

Players have come to expect SUBs, so to attract new players, you will have to be competitive. A player that wins will usually return, unless you have some kind of penalty (like withdrawing bonuses). You can minimize the cost to your business by limiting the amount you match, and maybe even by imposing a max cashout, especially if there are no progressive prizes a player might forfeit.

The 3Dice bonuses are with the exception of the SUB a reward for loyalty, and not all players get the same matches monthly.

I don't really have an answer for you on how to offer an attractive bonus, but a complicated one will only attract the bonus hunters (and that's not be be confused with abusers), and casual players will be offput.

I think the ideal bonus reduces the house edge, not eliminates it, so you are on the right track there, but you need a less complicated model IMO.