when are you people gonna learn, ALL online casinos are dishonest ? !

[tzarzan]

I've said it here before and I'll say it again. Onlione casinos have NO incentive to provide a fair and honest game, unlike the brick and mortars. They prey on those whom have the itch ( gAMBLING ) but have no legitemate outlet for it where so evewr they live.
Human nature, such as it is leads these cheaters ( online casino operators ) to sink to the lowest levels possible to take what they can from a gullible and hopefull public and make them ( the fleeced sheep ) think that they are on the up and up. I worked as a programer for a major software internet casino provider and one of my main tasks was to write a program that , in fact , rigged the servers in the clioent casinos favor, especially the table games. Baccarat, outside bets on roullete or blackjack.
I can prove my assertions with a coin toss pittede against any internet casino you chose.
If you HAVE to gamble, buy a lottery ticket. I think lottery is for those who failed math in high school, but at least you have Big Brother looking out for you.

 

[stevohhh]

question! you're a software programmer now?? Your profile says your a rancher!

Are you sure your not just mads cause you lost at baccarat again ?

 

[Nifty29]

I've said it here before and I'll say it again. Onlione casinos have NO incentive to provide a fair and honest game, unlike the brick and mortars. They prey on those whom have the itch ( gAMBLING ) but have no legitemate outlet for it where so evewr they live.
Human nature, such as it is leads these cheaters ( online casino operators ) to sink to the lowest levels possible to take what they can from a gullible and hopefull public and make them ( the fleeced sheep ) think that they are on the up and up. I worked as a programer for a major software internet casino provider and one of my main tasks was to write a program that , in fact , rigged the servers in the clioent casinos favor, especially the table games. Baccarat, outside bets on roullete or blackjack.
I can prove my assertions with a coin toss pittede against any internet casino you chose.
If you HAVE to gamble, buy a lottery ticket. I think lottery is for those who failed math in high school, but at least you have Big Brother looking out for you.

So what do people like you (who obviously failed grammar) play??? "Guess which hand"?? "Pick a number between 1 and 3"??

 

[skiny]

"Pick a number between 1 and 3"??

Five!

 

[blacklabrador]

I've said it here before and I'll say it again. Onlione casinos have NO incentive to provide a fair and honest game, unlike the brick and mortars. They prey on those whom have the itch ( gAMBLING ) but have no legitemate outlet for it where so evewr they live.
Human nature, such as it is leads these cheaters ( online casino operators ) to sink to the lowest levels possible to take what they can from a gullible and hopefull public and make them ( the fleeced sheep ) think that they are on the up and up. I worked as a programer for a major software internet casino provider and one of my main tasks was to write a program that , in fact , rigged the servers in the clioent casinos favor, especially the table games. Baccarat, outside bets on roullete or blackjack.
I can prove my assertions with a coin toss pittede against any internet casino you chose.
If you HAVE to gamble, buy a lottery ticket. I think lottery is for those who failed math in high school, but at least you have Big Brother looking out for you.

Riverbelle casino is one casino I have never had one bad expierience with. Ever. They pay promptly, the customer service is top notch and the slots/video poker are better paying than some of the B and M casinos ive been to. There is a reason i have been with them for 10+ years.

 

[prindi]

I worked as a programer for a major software internet casino provider and one of my main tasks was to write a program that , in fact , rigged the servers in the clioent casinos favor, especially the table games. Baccarat, outside bets on roullete or blackjack.
I can prove my assertions with a coin toss pittede against any internet casino you chose. .

This is pretty interesting. I would love to know who you worked for specifically. Im sure everyone else would be interested too. Which major software company was it? And specifically which casino? Was there a certain percentage that you would use to "skew the odds" so to speak? Exactly how was this done? Im no tech expert but I would love more details. Would you do this on an ongoing basis? Or was it for a short amount of time? Love to hear about this! Thanks!

 

[blacklabrador]

I didnt have time to finish my previous reply. Anyhow, I do not find any indication of table games being rigged on the casinos i have played on. In fact, I have had rather large hits on caribbean stud $4995, and have had probably 10 nights where I was playing craps and won over $5000 starting with a $200 bankroll. None of your post makes any sense to me whatsoever. I can't speak for blackjack because I simply don't play blackjack ever.

Furthmore, you coming out and saying that the program was rigged on an internet message board is pretty strange, and rather ballsy. I would think there would be some VERY unhappy people in the online casino industry and if they saw this, they would want to track that person down for one reason or another. Just sayin.

 

[Nifty29]

The only people the OP needs to worry about when it comes to being tracked down are the Bullshit Police......

 

[X-Raided]

There is a small percentage that it could be true.

Even if he really is just a cow rancher and hasn't
worked for an online casino, messing with the software
to make us lose, who's to say that this isn't going on for real elsewhere?

My money is on him being pissed off that he lost and wants to vent
a little.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

O.K. first of all, you sound like you are totally p.o. because you lost somewhere along the line. Second of all, anyone can post anything but without cold hard facts it's like blowing smoke in the wind. Third point, remember, spell check is your friend, in particular when you are posting on a forum and trying to be taken seriously.

Present your case, present the facts, but if you want people to give constructive feedback don't insinuate that everyone who gambles online is an idiot!

 

[Rusty]

So what do people like you (who obviously failed grammar) play??? "Guess which hand"?? "Pick a number between 1 and 3"??

Probably not a good thing to make fun of somebodies grammar and then use multiple question marks in your own while attempting to do so.
Just a thought.

 

[Nifty29]

Probably not a good thing to make fun of somebodies grammar and then use multiple question marks in your own while attempting to do so.
Just a thought.

The use of multiple question marks for the sake of emphasis is an accepted convention in modern English. It is also a far cry from the alphabet soup that the OP served up.

I also do not see the point of your post Rusty - I thought we put the personal stuff behind us.

 

[assa92004]

forgive my syntax and grammar but...

I would like to share an experience at 2 RTG places the other day.

I have been Playing online for about 7 or 8 years or perhaps a little more.
So Im not naive but also not an expert however I was starting to think
that at online casinos and especially RTG that they do personal account tabulating and keeping track of your win / loose and pay out accordingly.
* read in their favor

Whilst the nature of the beast is that until the books are opened, which will never happen, this is only conjecture but please allow me lets call it an educated conjecture with some empirical evidence added.

I was playing at what i considered to be a safe (is there such a thing)
RTG place, however I hadn't won anything for god knows how long. Many months say. (how many lets say more than 4 less than 8)
A long time. So a week or so ago, I said after yet another 200.00 deposit
gone in 60 seconds (well longer but you know what I mean). I contacted Live help and requested my account be deleted (suspended).
They wanted to now why, I said because I cant win (remember that line for later OK). Now there was song back and forth, the old you are having a bad run of luck , you know the normal dribble that spews forth when you complain. I said enough close it down, I cant win, and they did so. Nice finally i thought.

I went to my next RTG and deposited I believe a smaller amount I think from memory 60 or 100.00. I lost it, I then did the same, and went to Live chat to cancel my membership. (again because same deal I haven't won in months many months ) Now keep the idea that they pay according to how much you win loose. etc (and for any one that thinks they cant, its a computer its what they do best so settle down and just consider the possibility).

Now anyway where was I oh yes, live chat to cancel, and it was the same chap, lets call him Jake I said wow, you get around, and he informed me that the 2 RTGs are connected (some of you clever ones can probably guess what 2 only RTGs are connected). I said to Jake, wow so that last deposit had no chance of winning then really did it. I would like to close my account.
The gave me in 3 lots 500.00 of house (with play thru of course) bonuses.
200, 150 and 150 from memory. and I didn't get past scratch.
Jake bless his heart said that I wasn't to worry that i wasn't winning and that the other place that is connected I was actually a head . I said yes thats because I got a 1900 jackpot on the slots many months ago.

Now it seems to me that after all that, and ea time I went back, saying give me some more bonuses because frankly I cant win here the computer hates me, and guess what didn't get past scratch. IE say on the 200.00 bonus as example, lost it all with never having a chance to even get past the original 200. same with the 150 x 2 bonuses.

so you see its doesn't matter that they are tracking your win loss and paying you accordingly, the fact is it is happening. These were all slots BTW.
no table games at all. So What i can work out, once you have a win
(at this group of 2 RTGs at least) they will make pretty damn sure you cant win until they have their money back. The sucky thing is this though
that it transcends from the one place where i was slightly ahead even not winning for many months to the other place so its bad enough that they are probably accounting but its group wide not at a single site.

urggh.. enough this fool and his money has had enough.
The funny thing is even the live help staff (jake and co) said the same thing and said look maybe its time you stop for a while because you cant win after all the money i have piled in, and the icing on top was the 500 in 3 lumps they put in. and they said, stop u cant win its a fact LOL
enough.
guys please play for fun, but never think they aren't making damn sure that YOU never win (there are exceptions there has to be) but generally speaking the vast majority of players it is like this, You deposit at (this) RTG the system has already determined even before you play if you are going to win or loose (loose most likely) by what you have won previously.
So they are micro managing on a player *customer by customer basis.
I even said, can i just send you the money and just chat as it seems less frustrating and more likely to be more fun.

and consider this, if they are doing the above,

- who would know. I mean its all kept quite secret
- gee they are in the business to make money in a business that has no
real watch dog so they can micro manage and pretty well do what they
want.
- see above as it says its all we have only their word for it.
and the jurisdiction of grand caman island of Haiti or where the tin pot
overseeing body is, which basically means .. see my first 2 points again.

Until they are watched like B and W casinos they really cant be trusted
its like asking your bank to self regulate. They cant. greed will take hold
only in my case they just got (their system) to greedy to the point that the staff said stop our system wont let you win, direct quote.

cheers

I tell you though, for the 1000's that I have lost it has been fun
but at some point when its so obviously rigged you have to say enough.

 

[Mavin1]

O.K. first of all, you sound like you are totally p.o. because you lost somewhere along the line. Second of all, anyone can post anything but without cold hard facts it's like blowing smoke in the wind. Third point, remember, spell check is your friend, in particular when you are posting on a forum and trying to be taken seriously.

Present your case, present the facts, but if you want people to give constructive feedback don't insinuate that everyone who gambles online is an idiot!

No, we only feel like idiots, when we lose! Oh heck, just dawned on me, no wonder I felt like an idiot so much!

 

[Rusty]

The use of multiple question marks for the sake of emphasis is an accepted convention in modern English. It is also a far cry from the alphabet soup that the OP served up.

I also do not see the point of your post Rusty - I thought we put the personal stuff behind us.

I'm never personal nifty, I'm like this with everyone.

I will PM you with my reasoning.

 

[reda]

@assa92094 intresting post. sometimes we all wonder if there is a tracking device . i have played and won at several rtg casinos and then continue to play there hopeing to get lucky again except it doesnt happen. i will eventually have some good luck but im down for about a yr before it happens. seems im due now . . seems like what you are saying makes sense to me but of course the casino will say its just a run of bad luck.

 

[Mavin1]

@assa92094 intresting post. sometimes we all wonder if there is a tracking device . i have played and won at several rtg casinos and then continue to play there hopeing to get lucky again except it doesnt happen. i will eventually have some good luck but im down for about a yr before it happens. seems im due now . . seems like what you are saying makes sense to me but of course the casino will say its just a run of bad luck.

It's the paradox of the non-random random.


Word for the day; Paradox - not pronounced, pair of ducks.

par·a·dox   /ˈpærəˌdɒks/ Show Spelled
[par-uh-doks] Show IPA

–noun
1. a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth.
2. a self-contradictory and false proposition.
3. any person, thing, or situation exhibiting an apparently contradictory nature.

 

[EbeeDog]

assa92094:

Before some folks get on here and start telling you all that clap-trap about it being your imagination, or that you're a sore loser, or that RTG is so wholesomely accredited, safe, fair etc.etc. ad nauseum, (which, if it does happen, will sound a lot like the casino reps' pithy answers, except they may not be as polite , try doing a search here on CM for "Blackjack." You will find similar stories - along with replies from members hastening to assure them that it just couldn't be possible from the great RTG! Which, gee, just happens to be the only software other than Rival (cough cough ....rogue) that US members can play.

Also, RTG's website advertises (along with how lucrative their software is for licensees) that its programming has built in detection of fraudulent activity (bot play, for example.) It is not too big of a leap of logic to assume that they can and do track your play habits. (Nope, not fact, JMO)

BTW, my "hard luck" story is almost word for word the same as yours, and, at what I suspect is one of the same casinos. (A fruit that figures prominently in many slots- heh.)

Again, no hard evidence to back up my opinion here, just my experiences.

Also some trawling through forums for affiliates where they're comparing payouts, commissions, and how many regular fish they currently have didn't exactly increase my confidence in online casinos either.

Peace and GL to you.

Grammar police - get over yourselves.

 

[assa92004]

@assa92094 intresting post. sometimes we all wonder if there is a tracking device . i have played and won at several rtg casinos and then continue to play there hopeing to get lucky again except it doesnt happen. i will eventually have some good luck but im down for about a yr before it happens. seems im due now . . seems like what you are saying makes sense to me but of course the casino will say its just a run of bad luck.

Well of course it goes like if we are wrong and brimming over with wrongability then they will defend (watch out for hidden people with agendas too)
what myself and others have said, but i suspect they will go quiet.

Just be curious who does come out and say we are wrong. LOL might be an indicator of whom they are. It would be like someone defending the banks for high fees and charges. Normally indicates some one with shares in, or works for bank. I mean no right minded person would defend a bank
same goes for online casino. LOL so it may be interesting to see what
we have poked. Either way I think the jig is up (again I can almost definitely only say that at the 2 RTG's those gems of places i played at for so long thinking that it was electronic casino random as apposed to lying out of their ass's random.

banks, online casinos cigarette company's would any of these fine institution lie to us LOL.

 

[Nifty29]

@Assa: Didn't you say that you were ahead at one of those casinos?

If so, why would you be complaining? Most of us would give our left testicle to be ahead at a casino. You won a $1900 jackpot, and they also gave you $500 in freebies.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but do you want to swap places?

As far as this personal tracking issue is concerned, it is just pure speculation. Your experiences are not out of the ordinary and do not fall outside what could be expected from slot games. When someone comes up with the evidence of tampering or cheating, I am behind them 100%. Until then, it seems the vast majority of these suspicions come after one has taken a big hit or had a long losing streak, and it is possible that emotion affects their judgement in these cases.

If anybody has evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.

 

[Mavin1]

assa92094:

Before some folks get on here and start telling you all that clap-trap about it being your imagination, or that you're a sore loser, or that RTG is so wholesomely accredited, safe, fair etc.etc. ad nauseum, (which, if it does happen, will sound a lot like the casino reps' pithy answers, except they may not be as polite , try doing a search here on CM for "Blackjack." You will find similar stories - along with replies from members hastening to assure them that it just couldn't be possible from the great RTG! Which, gee, just happens to be the only software other than Rival (cough cough ....rogue) that US members can play.Also, RTG's website advertises (along with how lucrative their software is for licensees) that its programming has built in detection of fraudulent activity (bot play, for example.) It is not too big of a leap of logic to assume that they can and do track your play habits. (Nope, not fact, JMO)

BTW, my "hard luck" story is almost word for word the same as yours, and, at what I suspect is one of the same casinos. (A fruit that figures prominently in many slots- heh.)

Again, no hard evidence to back up my opinion here, just my experiences.

Also some trawling through forums for affiliates where they're comparing payouts, commissions, and how many regular fish they currently have didn't exactly increase my confidence in online casinos either.

Peace and GL to you.

Grammar police - get over yourselves.

Actually we have more than just those two, for US players.

US MG
RIVAL
VEGAS TECHNOLOGY
3DICE
TOP GAME
BETONSOFT?
NONE

There may be others, but these pop in my mind. So even if we have fewer choices than we had in the past, we still have choices. The final choice is one that is easily made, None.

I and others have persisted for a long time as to the fairness of gaming, I personaly have conceeded and realize it is an exercise in personal frustration. So the best that any player can do with the casinos you feel are all get and no give, is stop giving to them. They will never get the message as long as the money keeps pouring in.

But on that little rant of mine, I have also realized that sometimes on occasion you can have a good session. When I have gone to the local B&M, I would usually do well the first visit, but if I went back I would get skunked. It's the law of averages I guess.

My frustration with online casinos, in all reality would increase with the more frequent visits. The thought that the more you play, the greater your chance of winning. The flip side is, the more you play after getting any kind of win, big or small, the greater your chance of giving it all back.

Some softwares I have found I can't win with, no matter what strategy I use, like the notorious RTG, but then there are others like Vegas Tech and Top Game, where I have won. But if I keep going back, I always come out on the negative.

Anyways, there are choices in where you play, if you play and how you play. You just have to work on these issues within yourself as we can't change them, but we can change us.

I used to hope for big wins, which when I would get a little win, say $150 plus, then my mind kicks into this thinking, now I have a bankroll and can clean house, found out that is rare too. Now I will cashout that $150.

So after beating my brains out in all my rants and listening to people like Vinylweatherman, KK, RobWin, and many many others and examining screenshots of Rockycat and his constant little wins, I realized my thinking needed to be adjusted.

So I have quit for the most part playing online. If I do play, it will be VT or TG and I will be happy with the smaller wins, because when it comes to gambling, the majority of players will always only get the small stuff, but that small stuff adds up after awhile. This is the reality of RTP.

As for tracking players wins, losses and such, I have no doubt this can be done, but seriously, if it is the case, they won't change it and if it is the case, there are also some that may abuse this technology and some that won't , but this is a who knows, for us that aren't in the know. Just take your revenge by not playing along with the system if it isn't giving back once in awhile. In the virtual world of transactions, our voices may not be heard, but our lack of deposits will be felt, if people get tired enough of it.

So find your niche' and blow the rest off. I have and it's easier than I thought it would be.

 

[assa92004]

@Assa: Didn't you say that you were ahead at one of those casinos?

If so, why would you be complaining? Most of us would give our left testicle to be ahead at a casino. You won a $1900 jackpot, and they also gave you $500 in freebies.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but do you want to swap places?

As far as this personal tracking issue is concerned, it is just pure speculation. Your experiences are not out of the ordinary and do not fall outside what could be expected from slot games. When someone comes up with the evidence of tampering or cheating, I am behind them 100%. Until then, it seems the vast majority of these suspicions come after one has taken a big hit or had a long losing streak, and it is possible that emotion affects their judgement in these cases.

If anybody has evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.

So you are of the school of thought that a business that is in the business of making money that has no oversight to speak of should be trusted. Interesting. I said i was slightly ahead at one of the 2 RTGs, the other was way behind which means that across the group I was several thousand behind. You can have my place any time.

S0 lets recap.

You are defending them,

I have empirical evidence that suggests (and from what they said)
that they are mcro tracking and tabulating .
I am at behind at the group, and that a losing streak of many months
taking into account of what I observed and also was told (dont play here for a while as you really cant win can you paraphrased direct quote (sic)

And that hey are basically a law unto themselves, regarding we have no idea
except they are in a money business that lets face it plays upon the players weakness (in some).

Every thing I have said as badly worded as it was happened.

Just lets be clear on this, you are willing to go by their word, good will
and disregard my evidence and the evidence of others, of a business
that lets face it is run by who knows who .. U know words fail me to explain this to you.

Why are you defending them.
You give cash money to a group of ppl who you hope, wish and pray they are playing fair when myself and others have suggested that
hey they may not be gee business that dont directly deal with money
(say your local electrical contractor or such) have been known to rip off
lie and cheat, why are you saying that these people are less likely.

I am just suggesting that from MY own experience, it is quite possible
that gee the people we are handing cash money over to is and then they are spinning a wheel with prizes on it, which we cant see, and telling us we loose
we should believe them.

I am just saying to we have a truly dis interested 3rd party watch dog
that can see the books the programs the other things running
and can verify it, might be an idea to consider they
arent as honest as we hoped.

So why are you defending them so vigorously.
Please xplain.

 

[missmichelle]

I guess I am a simple person. lol If I feel like I am not getting a fair game, I just move on. Nobody is holding a gun to our heads to make us deposit. It is our choice to take that GAMBLE.

I have had some horrible runs of bad luck but I have also had those times when no matter what I touch I can't lose. (those are few and far between) That's what keeps me playing. We all want to hit that one big one. If you honestly feel like you don't have a chance in hell of winning it, just quit playing.

I understand we all want some sympathy when we have horrible losing streaks but to say they are rigged isn't going to get you too much sympathy. If you really feel that way it is time to move on or quit altogether.

Good luck wherever you choose to play!

Michelle

 

[assa92004]

I guess I am a simple person. lol If I feel like I am not getting a fair game, I just move on. Nobody is holding a gun to our heads to make us deposit. It is our choice to take that GAMBLE.

I have had some horrible runs of bad luck but I have also had those times when no matter what I touch I can't lose. (those are few and far between) That's what keeps me playing. We all want to hit that one big one. If you honestly feel like you don't have a chance in hell of winning it, just quit playing.

I understand we all want some sympathy when we have horrible losing streaks but to say they are rigged isn't going to get you too much sympathy. If you really feel that way it is time to move on or quit altogether.
Good luck wherever you choose to play!

Michelle

Fair point, move on quit, I agree, however it would be remiss of me
and others not to point out that if it isnt fair, and what they are doing is breaking the law or be it even a moral law, and so I dont think I want to go away, but keep saying again and again, that they are morally and most probably legally breaking some rules here folks and that isnt right.

I think by all means let them operate, but let them operate with
the players being fully informed after all, I am sure that these guys havent ever ruined a persons life, oh wait I know they have. and so do you the dear listener.

So say it again, gambling is gambling, cheating and rigging outcomes and micromanaging isnt gambling, its cheating, its dishonest and down right just not a nice thing to do. So yes leave quit definately, stop talking about how horrible they are nope.

I just want to be a thorn in their sides till they do the right thing, and all we have is our voice and good intentions.

recap, they spin a wheel that we cant see, and then tell us if we have won.
someone needs 2 be watching them. I have a year off sick from work, silly buggers have given me a cause and a good reason to get up in the mornings to get up them. LOL yay team crooked online casinos.. way to go giving someone who has lots of spare time on his hands to just tell people the facts

again remember that wheel that we cant see, and they tell us what we have won or lost. keep thinking that. and letting others know and perhaps just maybe they can be turned into a somewhat honest industry.
and remember money has never made someone do something wrong and dishonest. wait ,again it has. silly me.

* ps from the small amount of film footage I have seen of these guys some of them are gangsters (coldcat casino as an eg or that south African soccer sponsorship fiasco , yep those guys looked like good church goers)

 

[Nifty29]

I was going to respond point by point but it is, well, pointless.

I am not defending 'them' (I assume you mean online casinos in general). I am not defending anything or anyone. My results over 10 years have been in line with what I would expect playing games of around 92-96% RTP online, which is far better than the 84% that the regulated slots payout here in Australia.

People are adamantly demanding regulation of the industry, and I agree it would be better for everyone involved. However, remember that regulation costs money and it will come out of players' pockets not anyone else's (i.e. lower RTP as exists in B&M operations around the world). You see, the government will want their tax take, the operator must make money, and you can be assured that the credit card companies will find a way to screw us as well. At the moment, it is just the casino taking it's ~5% profit and the rest is back to the player. Personally, I would rather keep the better RTP but I also think regulation is more important so I will sacrifice one for the other.

At the end of the day, you are still playing online and probably will continue to do so. Unless you stop right now and never play again, then it means that either a) you do not really believe what you say or b) you do believe what you say but are really dumb.

I find it very difficult to give any credence to people who cry 'cheat' etc etc and then keep playing (and probably post the same stuff again the next week). If everyone that posted here at CM with those opinions swore off online gambling forever then I would definitely reconsider my own views - but it seldom happens and most times it is just letting off steam when one loses (which is fine, but don't make up reasons for why you lost your money)

The minute I don't think I am getting a fair game, I am outta here.

Assa, you are deluded if you think that everyone who doesn't share your view is somehow connected to a casino. Many people here have a contrary view to yours and are just players like myself.

 

[assa92004]

I was going to respond point by point but it is, well, pointless.

I am not defending 'them' (I assume you mean online casinos in general). I am not defending anything or anyone. My results over 10 years have been in line with what I would expect playing games of around 92-96% RTP online, which is far better than the 84% that the regulated slots payout here in Australia.

People are adamantly demanding regulation of the industry, and I agree it would be better for everyone involved. However, remember that regulation costs money and it will come out of players' pockets not anyone else's (i.e. lower RTP as exists in B&M operations around the world). You see, the government will want their tax take, the operator must make money, and you can be assured that the credit card companies will find a way to screw us as well. At the moment, it is just the casino taking it's ~5% profit and the rest is back to the player. Personally, I would rather keep the better RTP but I also think regulation is more important so I will sacrifice one for the other.

At the end of the day, you are still playing online and probably will continue to do so. Unless you stop right now and never play again, then it means that either a) you do not really believe what you say or b) you do believe what you say but are really dumb.

I find it very difficult to give any credence to people who cry 'cheat' etc etc and then keep playing (and probably post the same stuff again the next week). If everyone that posted here at CM with those opinions swore off online gambling forever then I would definitely reconsider my own views - but it seldom happens and most times it is just letting off steam when one loses (which is fine, but don't make up reasons for why you lost your money)

The minute I don't think I am getting a fair game, I am outta here.

Assa, you are deluded if you think that everyone who doesn't share your view is somehow connected to a casino. Many people here have a contrary view to yours and are just players like myself.

mmm look the bottom line is, and always is, if you cant see the wheel then there is always doubt that they are being fair. You cant argue that
and delusion is in the eye of the beholder. And yes you are correct regulation
would cost more money, however better for everyone dont you think.

You are doing my head in here. you dont get it. THE WHEEL IS HIDDEN
lol dear oh dear. we dont see the winning result.
at least at the pokies here when they rip you off its not personal
as they have no idea whos playing. so they cant 'manage your account'
but online they can and do.
if it means more money to them they will do it. U dont think they are altruistic and do this coz they like us.
silly billy..

but as i said. u arent getting it. you cant see the wheel and the result.
at least have a dis interested 3rd party do a 5 percent or 2 percent transaction check or however it would work. with the loss of their license
if found to be fiddling .. they need a watch dog watching them.
You know something I trust my bank more than i do them and thats saying something.
and banks have watch dogs. oversight.

TVs yes minster ... but there are no patients (in the hosp) but minister its the best run hospital .. ..

listen i have a casino here. can u give me 100 bucks and i will tell u if u have won.

lol you cant see the wheel in fact i dont even know if the bloody wheel has spun. do you.
no..
bottom line is. we play and we trust that they arent doing it. (cheating us) and that isnt good enough

LOL

 

[assa92004]

I was going to respond point by point but it is, well, pointless.

I am not defending 'them' (I assume you mean online casinos in general). I am not defending anything or anyone. My results over 10 years have been in line with what I would expect playing games of around 92-96% RTP online, which is far better than the 84% that the regulated slots payout here in Australia.

People are adamantly demanding regulation of the industry, and I agree it would be better for everyone involved. However, remember that regulation costs money and it will come out of players' pockets not anyone else's (i.e. lower RTP as exists in B&M operations around the world). You see, the government will want their tax take, the operator must make money, and you can be assured that the credit card companies will find a way to screw us as well. At the moment, it is just the casino taking it's ~5% profit and the rest is back to the player. Personally, I would rather keep the better RTP but I also think regulation is more important so I will sacrifice one for the other.

At the end of the day, you are still playing online and probably will continue to do so. Unless you stop right now and never play again, then it means that either a) you do not really believe what you say or b) you do believe what you say but are really dumb.

I find it very difficult to give any credence to people who cry 'cheat' etc etc and then keep playing (and probably post the same stuff again the next week). If everyone that posted here at CM with those opinions swore off online gambling forever then I would definitely reconsider my own views - but it seldom happens and most times it is just letting off steam when one loses (which is fine, but don't make up reasons for why you[

/B] lost your money)

The minute I don't think I am getting a fair game, I am outta here.

Assa, you are deluded if you think that everyone who doesn't share your view is somehow connected to a casino. Many people here have a contrary view to yours and are just players like myself.

I Know you don't have shares or work for them so whose a dummy
you are defending them so big time
and no im not blowing off steam
it was a well considered position,
why isn't yours

seriously now, you are doing my head in
i cant believe you believe what you say.

 

[4 of a kind]

I'd like to put forward a hypothetical scenario. Let's pretend that someone brought forward irrefutable evidence that one software brand had internal access to software performance beyond ones imagination. Let's say for arguments sake that all the alleged accusations by players were confirmed true for this one software company.

What would happen at this point? Would everyone just assume that if one could do it, they all must be able too? Would online gaming come to a screeching halt? Would we be hearing how it was only a rogue operator or two with access to the software?

Can anyone say poker scandal? The truth of the matter remains that even if a software provider or casino was confirmed cheating nothing would change. Of course a couple of names will be thrown into the fire with no legal consequences. The casino or software company will then allege it's been sold and bought out or just re-brands. All other unnamed software providers will come forward and explain how this could never happen with their software with all the safety precautions in place, etc.etc.etc.

After the initial shock everything will be back to normal within a few months. The poker scandal involving two major poker sites was enough to prove to all poker players that without regulation stay clear. Millions of dollars were returned to players confirming fraud. Then their was even a segment on 60 minutes exposing the cheating. Some impact this all had on poker sites. Not only are the two sites still operating under the same names, their still near the top of the money printing business.

The bottom line here is even proof will not bring in real regulation. This is a multi billion dollar industry and no one person is going to bring it down. Not now, not ever.

What it all boils down to, is each player must decide for themselves. If your convinced your not getting a fair game just pull the plug. You would have a better chance of winning the lottery then coming to a site like this and trying to prove foul play. Everyone seems to forget that money is the only motivation in this field. When your talking billions and billions of dollars one should only realistically imagine what is possible.

 

[Nifty29]

What it all boils down to, is each player must decide for themselves. If your convinced your not getting a fair game just pull the plug.

A very sensible statement. As I was saying to Assa, if you believe in all the cloak and dagger stuff then have the courage of your convictions and stop playing online.

It is interesting what you say about the poker scandal, and that online poker is still going strong in the aftermath. I think the result may have been different if the operators involved did not recompense those who had lost....at least this says to the players "We stuffed up, it isn't your fault, and you are not going to pay for it". Poker rooms will make far more money in the long run than they will by trying to fleece people for short term gain.

I also believe that online casinos (the reputable ones anyway) have a vested interest in producing winners! Winners attract players, and winners inevitably become losers along with the people they attracted initially without any need for software manipulation or 'personal profit tracking' etc.

The bottom line is that online casinos don't need to do all this things they are accused of by Assa and others. A good operator can make a very nice profit just by offering fast payouts, great games, great service, and a reasonable RTP. Don't believe me? Check out 32Red and 3Dice et al.

Here is another question for Assa - Why doesn't the casino just give you as many free bonuses as you want whenever you want with a small WR? I mean, if your account is set to 'lose' it wouldn't matter would it? The casino could offer you a 500% match up to $5000 with a 5xWR, or a $1000 freebie with 5WR....it wouldn't bother the casino as you can't win anyway.

You say that we 'can't see the wheel'. Well, you can't see it at land based casinos either (except for the table games and the big wheel) so I am not sure what your point is....? We are all at the mercy of the computer chip these days so, as you said, it does come down to trust at some point.

I trust the online casinos where I play. Why? Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, I am treated well and sometimes even get pampered. I believe I am playing a fair game, as I strongly doubt that I would have experienced the wins I have on a 'rigged to lose' game or account. You have to realise when you hit big at a casino, you probably had a lot of losing sessions beforehand, which you probably conveniently forget when you hit the jackpot. After that, you start losing again (which most players do because...errr..its a casino) and you begin to question the fairness of the software, when actually you are just losing like everyone else but it feels 'iffy' because you haven't hit big again.

The other reason I trust where I play is because I play only at Casinomeister Accredited Casinos.

CM is the great 'firewall' between me and the rogue operators who want to rob me blind. I can state categorically that I would not have woken up to who the good guys are if it hadn't been for Bryan and this site. He is not perfect, and sometimes good operators go bad - but being here means I am the first to know and I am able to make better decisions about where I spend my money.

You can make accusations about RTG all you like, but I am ahead with them the past 2 years which is more than I can say for other platforms. So, does that mean my account is set to 'win' and yours is set to 'lose'. Give me a break.

I have often asked posters if they have any theory about how exactly the 'account tracking' works. Do they have dozens of workers following everyone's play? Do they have a different 'game' for each and every player? Do they remove symbols from the reels while you play? Do they have a program that identifies people like you who have won jackpots and reduce your RTP as a result (I can't see how they could achieve this without you playing a completely different version of the slot than everyone else). I really am interested in the deeper parts of this theory.

My view in the meantime remains the same - that is, the casinos don't need to do all this stuff for you to lose. House edge ensures you will lose all on it's own.

 

[EbeeDog]

My view in the meantime remains the same - that is, the casinos don't need to do all this stuff for you to lose. House edge ensures you will lose all on it's own.


Nice post. Many good points made reasonably and politely, but this is the one I like the best It is the one irrefutable fact that usually brings me back to reality when I get to thinking: Cheats! Manipulators! RTG damn you! etc etc..lol

When I am able to think about it clearly, another point often occurs to me: that is, casinos (B&M or Online) don't really need to alter things because, also from my own experience, the player's greed is their best income generator.

Is it my opinion that some of this "stuff" goes on? Sure, I have already made that clear. But I have found a way to live with it and keep playing.

While it is just as addictive, it beats smokin' crack

Peace.

Afterthought: I too would have lost untold amounts to rogues if it hadn't have been for this site.

 

[buggars]

I too was just about to believe all these casinos were just a way to get your money and i would never win but for the last two weeks I found that to be untrue. I have won over $5000 and never really won much out of 7-8 yrs of online gambling. I'm a believer now and will continue to play but only @ very reputable casinos.
buggars
gl all

 

[assa92004]

where there is smoke there is fire ...

All I am suggesting fellows, is that where there is no oversight, and large vast amounts of money, there is bound to be temptation to not play by the rules.

Why do we have oversight on banks and just about every other business
that has dealings with cash money.

Why cant we have serious oversight on online casinos.
Who would it hurt. Make it voluntary. You may be surprised how much better
their business's would run as in players having more confidence in them
if a 3rd party (say some type of well known accounting firm) running audits
on them. I am not suggesting this as the answer just a suggestion on how it could be run. I would be certainly happier about handing over money
knowing at some stage a percentage of transactions are checked.

And if you dont want some kind of assurance How come
(please dont quote figures on how much extra it would cost as you cant know that so please other reasons why not)

 

[StaceyLee]

Casiono's - It's Worth A Look!

I have to say that I agree with both sides of this issue and remain "on the fence", however I would favour regulation of some sort. People are always going to play for a multitude of reasons, which is why a voice in this ocean is barely audible, but it would be interesting if a casino could just investigate the possible benefits for themselves by introducing a legit 3rd party regulation.

Sure, they have had great marketing PR people who have convinced them that their clientele will increase if they provide quick payouts and great service. Maybe it's now time for a casino marketing rep to think about another strategy to attract clients from other casinos; to bring in those wanting to play but that are too "scared" to play on-line because they automatically believe it must be "rigged"; and to eliminate bad publicity by "word of mouth".

We are given pages of terms and conditions that we as players have to abide by, how about our terms and conditions? But of course if this type of fairness existed it would be a perfect world - and unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world.

Back to the point: I do believe that by providing a 3rd party regulator to ensure there is no computer tampering and casino is winning by house edge alone, that an on-line casino's profit margin will increase.

Sure, there may possibly be more wins and more payouts; there will be players that play for the "sport" and "challenge" of strategy who may win consistently; and there will always be entertainment players. But regardless of the reason for playing, human nature in our world today demands honesty and security wherever it can and will provide loyalty to whomever can provide it!

Many major corporations around the world are addressing this issue in their PR departments. For e.g. the biggest phone company in our country has had to revamp their commitment to clientele and introduce marketing strategies geared toward providing honest service, incentive plans and bonuses; treating people as human beings once again; etc - as for several years their profits plummeted due to complacency and disprespect for human nature.

At least with regulation the "fear" of being ripped off can be eliminated and players can truly enjoy the game - win or lose. (No more gripes about the "unknown" as people are empowered to make their choices from knowing all the risks beforehand!)

So if anyone (casino rep) is out there watching, just give it some thought. What harm would it do to "toss it around the table". Be a forerunner in your industry and get in first - for once you provide a "safe haven" and capture client loyalty, you will never lose it! And I do believe it will be your greatest marketing asset! After all, you are in business and no matter how successful you may be, you are always at risk of losing your customers.


Cheers all.
StaceyLee

 

[takethemoney]

I'd like to put forward a hypothetical scenario. Let's pretend that someone brought forward irrefutable evidence that one software brand had internal access to software performance beyond ones imagination. Let's say for arguments sake that all the alleged accusations by players were confirmed true for this one software company.

What would happen at this point? Would everyone just assume that if one could do it, they all must be able too? Would online gaming come to a screeching halt? Would we be hearing how it was only a rogue operator or two with access to the software?

Can anyone say poker scandal? The truth of the matter remains that even if a software provider or casino was confirmed cheating nothing would change. Of course a couple of names will be thrown into the fire with no legal consequences. The casino or software company will then allege it's been sold and bought out or just re-brands. All other unnamed software providers will come forward and explain how this could never happen with their software with all the safety precautions in place, etc.etc.etc.

After the initial shock everything will be back to normal within a few months. The poker scandal involving two major poker sites was enough to prove to all poker players that without regulation stay clear. Millions of dollars were returned to players confirming fraud. Then their was even a segment on 60 minutes exposing the cheating. Some impact this all had on poker sites. Not only are the two sites still operating under the same names, their still near the top of the money printing business.

The bottom line here is even proof will not bring in real regulation. This is a multi billion dollar industry and no one person is going to bring it down. Not now, not ever.

What it all boils down to, is each player must decide for themselves. If your convinced your not getting a fair game just pull the plug. You would have a better chance of winning the lottery then coming to a site like this and trying to prove foul play. Everyone seems to forget that money is the only motivation in this field. When your talking billions and billions of dollars one should only realistically imagine what is possible.

I believed this and did with one software platform across the board. 102 negative result deposits don't lie. Nothing one way or the other will ever be proven but at a young age my father taught me that my gut instincts are going to be my best guide and if it doesn't look or smell right...RUN LIKE HELL!
Sage advice. I will not spend countless hours lamenting over the past or trying to down a business without concrete proof. I can, however, choose not to play there.

 

[Stovetopp]

All I am suggesting fellows, is that where there is no oversight, and large vast amounts of money, there is bound to be temptation to not play by the rules.

Why do we have oversight on banks and just about every other business
that has dealings with cash money.

Why cant we have serious oversight on online casinos.
Who would it hurt. Make it voluntary. You may be surprised how much better
their business's would run as in players having more confidence in them
if a 3rd party (say some type of well known accounting firm) running audits
on them. I am not suggesting this as the answer just a suggestion on how it could be run. I would be certainly happier about handing over money
knowing at some stage a percentage of transactions are checked.

And if you dont want some kind of assurance How come
(please dont quote figures on how much extra it would cost as you cant know that so please other reasons why not)

We did have oversight prior to 2008 and what good did that do? The only regulations that seems to be working is the LAS VEGAS model.

 

[felicie]

I 've been hardly playing anywhere for over a year now because I got no joy throwing my money down the toilet month after month and no joy sort of puts a cramp in any good addiction if you ask me.

More importantly though was this growing feeling that the whole winning/losing thing was becoming more like holidays on a calendar, not sure which day exactly but certainly would occur during that month.

In 5 or 6 years of playing, every win I've had has been in one of only 3 months. The same 3 months every year for 5 years? Thats not random no way. I don't care what kind of math magic you use.

But who cares. Some do some don't as you would see by reading many of these same discussions in this forum since I've been around here anyway and, the only change NOT depositing has brought me was that now I NEVER win.

So I think I shall return to my past habit of regular play at the few I feel will at least send me the check because as it stands now, I am no richer, the casinos didn't even notice I was gone and my bank as usual just keeps taking more and more and with no joy included I might add.

Maybe I will get some kind of feeling of randomness (word?) in choosing which casino will treat me right this month. But I bet I'll have to wait till April for another win.

 

[takethemoney]

I have not deposited a dime in an online casino in 3 months now. Pretty good, huh? When it becomes pointless it also becomes no fun when the outcome is like watching a movie you've seen before. I just have no signs to tell me anything would be different if I were to play again. I have been enjoying going to a land based casino which is about an hour drive from me. I'm ahead of the game there, which is a refreshing change compared to playing at RTG casinos which seem to have my number. I'm sure with other folks having similar experiences, there are less deposits and this probably only serves to drive the casinos to be even tighter???