Playtech - RTP's vary casino-to-casino.

[Simmo!]

Spotted something interesting today. I've had a pretty strong hunch playing Gladiator that the game varies in RTP from casino to casino. It becomes obvious after a while by the pattern used when the Gladiator bonus reveals it's prizes or the Colosseum bonus reveals the number of spins with scatters. There are patterns which you can easily start to predict. Some casinos have the same pattern, others a different one. With no set paytable on bonus features it's impossible to confirm but I have been 100% convinced for a while now that Gladiator in the Flash version of Bet365 has a significantly higher RTP than Gladiator at SEGA - the way the two bonus features work - just never been able to prove it.

But today I decided to test out the Flash version of Iron Man at Betfair, and then at Bet365 and noticed the paytable is different. When you look at the paytables, there are discrepencies all over it LOL (see pics below). Additionally, the number of free spins available in the bonus seemed to be more on Betfair than at Betfred. I've never seen the option for more than 19 (7+6+6) on BetFred but Betfair revealed 20 (8+7+5).

I assume therefore that Playtech operate like RTG and Wagerworks where a casino can choose a pre-configured paytable prior to installation. Until now it's never been that obvious, but now the paytables clearly vary, it means you might want to do a bit of research on your favourite games.

Because (unlike Wagerworks) Playtech don't publish RTP's I think this is a bit sneaky. If they did publish them, I would think it's actually a really good thing because it empowers the player. It also has an interesting side effect. It provides casinos with the chance to set certain games more competitively and use it in promotional materials, but I'm really surprised that they don't. An example, if you play IGT's Enchanted Unicorn, then two casinos have the RTP set to 97.39% whereas the others all have it set to 96.02%.

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[maphesto]

Lovely info Simmo! Thanks!

It sure feels like we (or you as a Playtech affiliate ) have to do some more research and check all slots at all Playtech casinos then.

Quite a job..

You can begin with all slots with expanding/stacked wilds.

 

[Simmo!]

Lovely info Simmo! Thanks!

It sure feels like we (or you as a Playtech affiliate ) have to do some more research and check all slots at all Playtech casinos then.

Quite a job..

You can begin with all slots with expanding/stacked wilds.

Actually funny you should mention that. I was just mulling over employing someone to go round all the Playtechs screenshotting them for a Slotjunkies Playtech repository anyway LOL. Anyone want a paid job?

It occurs to me that the varying paytables may simply be a mechanism to vary the variance of the games. Think that would be too hard to balance though and RTP variations are more likely.

I should reiterate though that I don't see this as a bad thing personally, though without published RTP's it could easily be construed that way.

 

[bet365 Mgr]

Hi Simmo,

Very good spot there. However I would like to draw your attention to a major difference between the flash version at betfair and the flash version at bet365.

On betfair they have a 20 line non jackpot game whereas we at bet365 offer the 25 line version with a progressive jackpot. That is why the paytables are different, they are two different versions of the game nothing more ominous than that.

Thanks and have a good day.

bet365 Mgr

 

[Simmo!]

Hi Simmo,

Very good spot there. However I would like to draw your attention to a major difference between the flash version at betfair and the flash version at bet365.

On betfair they have a 20 line non jackpot game whereas we at bet365 offer the 25 line version with a progressive jackpot. That is why the paytables are different, they are two different versions of the game nothing more ominous than that.

Thanks and have a good day.

bet365 Mgr

Ah that tallies. Just checked King Solomons version which also has the jackpot and that is an exact match to Bet365

Just to clarify though, do bet365 have the option to select RTP's with Playtech for their games or are they just handed out as standard by Playtech? I ask because when playing Gladiator, the 2 bonus features in the version at Bet365 reveal prizes and spins differently to some other Playtechs. There is a pattern that repeats itself, but the patterns at Bet365 are different to those say at SEGA.

In addition, could you clarify what control Bet365 have (or whether the Playtech Backend provides options) on RTPs overall. Are they able to change them and if so, under what circumstances?

 

[bet365 Mgr]

Simmo,

With regards to RTP we as a Playtech licensee have no choice over RTP on new games, the games are developed by Playtech and delivered to us. Obviously I can't comment on the difference between our Gladiator and that at Sega but certainly there were no options available when we launched the game and I very much doubt Sega had any choice in this either.

In terms of changing RTP once a game is in place. That is a no no. Obviously if a new and different version is released such as Ironman with new features and / or number of lines then certainly that game may carry a different RTP due to the overall mathematics of the game.

But changing it once in place. No, no control at all.

 

[Rusty]

Simmo,

With regards to RTP we as a Playtech licensee have no choice over RTP on new games, the games are developed by Playtech and delivered to us. Obviously I can't comment on the difference between our Gladiator and that at Sega but certainly there were no options available when we launched the game and I very much doubt Sega had any choice in this either.

In terms of changing RTP once a game is in place. That is a no no. Obviously if a new and different version is released such as Ironman with new features and / or number of lines then certainly that game may carry a different RTP due to the overall mathematics of the game.

But changing it once in place. No, no control at all.

So all Playtech slots have their own RTP and that set theoretical RTP is the same across casinos for each slot?
Since you must know the RTP of each slot release can you tell us why you do not make that information available to your players as in accordance with UKGC remote casino rules?
(I know you are not licensed by the UKGC)
Thanks

 

[Simmo!]

Simmo,

With regards to RTP we as a Playtech licensee have no choice over RTP on new games, the games are developed by Playtech and delivered to us. Obviously I can't comment on the difference between our Gladiator and that at Sega but certainly there were no options available when we launched the game and I very much doubt Sega had any choice in this either.

In terms of changing RTP once a game is in place. That is a no no. Obviously if a new and different version is released such as Ironman with new features and / or number of lines then certainly that game may carry a different RTP due to the overall mathematics of the game.

But changing it once in place. No, no control at all.

Thanks. Good info and appreciated

It would be great if Playtech could be persuaded to publish the RTP's in the game paytables like Wagerworks do.

 

[jod5413]

Hi Simmo,

Very good spot there. However I would like to draw your attention to a major difference between the flash version at betfair and the flash version at bet365.

On betfair they have a 20 line non jackpot game whereas we at bet365 offer the 25 line version with a progressive jackpot. That is why the paytables are different, they are two different versions of the game nothing more ominous than that.

Thanks and have a good day.

bet365 Mgr

Simmo,

With regards to RTP we as a Playtech licensee have no choice over RTP on new games, the games are developed by Playtech and delivered to us. Obviously I can't comment on the difference between our Gladiator and that at Sega but certainly there were no options available when we launched the game and I very much doubt Sega had any choice in this either.

In terms of changing RTP once a game is in place. That is a no no. Obviously if a new and different version is released such as Ironman with new features and / or number of lines then certainly that game may carry a different RTP due to the overall mathematics of the game.

But changing it once in place. No, no control at all.

How wonderful this is! I believe it is called "Transparency". It would be nice if all casino reps would bother answering players' questions, instead of letting them stew and fret and then get upset when they get hammered by their customers in the forums.

I really hope some day Playtech will once again be allowed to take USA customers, especially casinos with good reps like Bet365 Mgr. There is obviously more that a casino should offer, like RTP in a prominent place on their website or in the casino. Hopefully it will come in the near future.

Thumbs up to Bet365!

 

[Zoozie]

I assume therefore that Playtech operate like RTG and Wagerworks where a casino can choose a pre-configured paytable prior to installation.

I am quite sure you are correct. But you can add Rival software to this list also and probably most of the small software providers also...

But I find it very important that for WagerWorks you can see what RTP version of the slot you are playing, because this is simply started under the help file for the slot. Ie. it will be listed as 94.53% etc. And I have seen the same slot set at different RTP at WagerWorks/Virgin at the same time. And at WagerWorks they changed the same slot (Cleopatra I) RTP several times over some weeks.

This makes WagerWorks a very honest software I trust. You are not getting cheated and have no way of finding out. Unlike playing RTP/Playtech/Rival where you could be playing a "Las Vegas Airport" slot with a 84% RTP.

Actually because of an embarrasing casino manager mistake on this forum 2 years ago, we learned that a new Playtech slot was set at 92% RTP at his casino

Also Rival used to display the RTP as well just like WagerWorks, but the software/operators turned crooks around the time CocoaBob quit. (SlotOcash only exception of good operators that lasted a little longer).

For MG it is a shame they do not publish RTP for each slot. But at least it is
100% certain operators can not change the RTP for this casino. So I do have full confidence in MG software. Further more many MG slots has been cracked and analyzed showing they have RTP from 94%-96%.

In short you can only trust Wagerworks slots. (with MG slots comming very close).

Edit: As an honourable mention, I should also say that Galewind Software publish RTP for slots just like WagerWorks. (on the help page). Way to go!

 

[refre]

I think Virgin casino displays RTP for their MG flash games.
Probably an Alderney licensing requirement.

Freddy

 

[Simmo!]

I think Virgin casino displays RTP for their MG flash games.
Probably an Alderney licensing requirement.

Freddy

Some of them, not all. Not on cashapilla or LOTR as far as I can tell.

 

[refre]

Some of them, not all. Not on cashapilla or LOTR as far as I can tell.

You're right about LOTR.

General Information
•The RTP for Cashapillar is 95.13%.

Freddy

 

[Rhyzz]

It's funny, I remember confronting Intercasino about their RTP on their Marvel slots a few years back...they seemed to think that 81% RTP was 'within expectations'. Ever likely they're going under, people are wising up.