15th November 2003, 12:05 AM
I dont remember which post or postee wrote about how he/she seemed to win only when they were new to a casino. This really interested me because it sounded VERY familiar. So I did my own research and it may be purely coincedental (please decide for yourself) but I went back through about 8 casinos where I had done well with cashouts and in each one, it was in fact when I was brand spanking new that I had BIG cash outs! NEVER with the bonus's but within my first few large deposits. At two of the casinos I did notice that after spending $8-10K I finally won again: one was $1000 and the other was $1200. Another thing was that after getting those emails "you havent played at our casino in a while & we have missed you and put X amount in your account" I recall winning just enough to make me spend again. But thats just out of memory. What really made me curious is that I recently told yall about my $8,000 cash out right? Well I went back to the casino and with spending about $2000 in one week, I could not win a single thing. It was not like I could win even a little at a time to keep playing for a while, it was almost rediculous strait losses with even few little wins. In the big picture I spent $2000 & in that $2000 I won ONE time just over a hundred dollars and that was after spending $300 in one game on $1.25 to even $9 spins. Its like after my big cashout that one day, I was cursed. I am so curious to do more research about this and if anyone else wants to help me maybe we can do a little survey of our own some how by posting your wins and when right here. This just seems way too coincedental to sit right with me. No one i know or nothing I have read explains how the system of payment works or where our money goes, I have no idea what really goes on, I just trust and hope. It really bugs me that they make Price Coopers appear as if they "monitor" the casinos to keep them legit, when in actuality each casino SENDS a report TO THEM and they dont even have to check it or verify it, so a casino can say anything, and Price just lists it on thier site as if Price did some monthly check up, if I understand this correctly. I spend WAY too much money to not be curious about this. Its OUR money so I feel like we should at least know where it is going. When I asked this question here, I dont think it made sense the first time so I am going to explain it in simpler terms and I am sure you all have wondered about this as well and then some of you may KNOW the answer. First, there is one thing that has stuck in my head ever since I read it and really bugs me, Bryan had written somewhere about a guy who basically told him something like, "I only care about the new people who come to my casino" Well WHY?? Why would that matter?? Why would you NOT want to keep your customers happy and spending??? I think Bryan said he almost got into a fist fight with that guy (if that makes it sound any more familiar). Anyway, Lets take microgaming for instance,
Lets pretend a new casino called "X casino" opens up today and many of us sign up and say one of us wins $150K at High Five slot machine, and another of us wins $150k at Cool buck the very day it opens AT that casino. Well that casino is brand new, and they only took in $50k themselves that day but that would not matter because a slot machine ONLY pays out what it has ALREADY made right? So my questions are: HOW in the world would this casino be able to report actual pay out percentages of thier games to Price????...& WHERE DOES OUR MONEY GO?? AND WHO IS HOLDING ALL OF THE MONEY? Doesnt it seem like there would HAVE to be ONE designated money holder that all the money goes to? And then when we win, the casino goes to that money holder and gets it to pay us with? This is so confusing, but I think we should know where our money is going. HOW does the casino make thier money, who pays them or do they only get to keep what they actually bring in? If they are only concerned about the new people winning, why is that? If the casinos are legit, why is thier no information on the web about how the whole internet gambling works like there is about Vegas slot machines & how they work?? And explain how one new casino can pay out $300K and report to Price that they pay out 98% in thier slots? The scary thing is that if they only care about NEW people than this money holder could easily PICK which casinos they are going to ALLOW the wins to go each day? Like the new ones perhaps? In Vegas, theres ONE actual slot machine so its easy to monitor if 20,000 people play and what the percentage of that ONE machine pays out. But we have NO idea if we are even winning 1% of what goes into one online game from all of the casinos. AND think about this: If there is ONE Cool Buck game that ALL of the casinos are connected to ALL of the casinos HAVE to make money from that ONE game, so how much are we really allowed to win, if some casinos didnt make much money that day, week or month? I just cant see how, with the hundreds of casinos with the same games supposedly being ALL connected, how can we go on such severe losing streaks when people all over the world are playing the SAME games. Its not the $2000 losing streak that I am even compairing but some months I have gone on $10K losing streak with NO cash outs...how is that possible? I mean it could just be me, just bad luck, and I am certainly not trying to bash the online casino industry, because I LOVE to gamble online, I just want to know because its really bugging me. So anyone who knows how it works, LET ME IN ON IT!! We spend about $5k per month on average gambling, thats just too much to have these questions in my head unanswered. Also you would think a casino would REALLY try to keep our business or tried to get our business back if we quit playing at thier casino but none have. Even after spending $20-$30K in ONE casino with no cash outs. They may send a "we miss you promo email" but that just doesnt seem like enough. UNLESS, it is true that somehow only the NEW people count. Another really strange thing is that we stopped getting any casino emails after we took two months off. NOW after the big cash out...we are being BOMBARDED with emails from casinos new and old, how did they get that info or know we were playing again? Thats another STRANGE coincedence. We at this board are doing the best we can, we do our research & share our information to try to keep from being taken. Maybe if we can really stick together and share more details in ONE specific place, maybe we wont make some mistakes that carelss people who do no research make. So if you are willing, please list anything that you can actually go back and look at, also future wins of when and where you won and how much you spent to get there. Lets just see if this is purely coincedental. What do yall think? I know theres a lot of questions in this one post, but I had to get it all out while it was fresh in my head.
17th November 2003, 10:24 AM
I have to agree with you. From my personal experience, I also win when I first play at a casino. However, if I win small (couple of hundred) I never cash out. I only cash out when I have a couple of thousand in my account. Do you do the same as I do? If you are up a few hundred do you just leave it there to play on?
Also, I play heavily like you. I spend between 8K and 10K a month. I rarely cash out and its starting to bug me. It seems after a win and cashing out, that I never win at that casino again. Not even a few hits to keep me going.
I think the only casino games that are connected are the progressives. Cash Splash, Treasure Nile, etc. As to who holds the money, I am as lost as you are. However, thats an excellent question and would love to know the answer myself.
19th November 2003, 03:08 AM
Funny, we sound A LOT alike when it comes to our gambling! : )
I am determined to figure something out to where I at least dont feel cheated & can have fun. Its too hard to fathom that after winning a good sum, we can go on such horrible losing streaks with so few wins. I get so mad after losing a strait $1000....it just seems unfair, so I pout and feel pissed, cheated and scammed. I know we cant win all of the time but the losses sometimes feel a bit unbelievable or rediculous. And YES, I never cash out anything under $2,000. I spend too much to cash out anything less to feel like I have actually gained something. Today I played at Platinum Club (where I won the $8000 and then lost about $4K this week already) and left there so pissed that I emailed them and asked them to close my account.
After looking at my play check, I was just SICK. I had $1000... at $18 per spin on 5 wheel drive, I spun 21 times, I won $18 TOTAL! I dropped it down to $9 spun 14 times and won $9 TOTAL! Out of $504 and 35 spins, I won $27??? In two minutes! I ended up going to different games and still could not win a THING. I went back with a few hundred left to 5 wheel drive and again won nothing. I even deposited $50 MORE in and went back to 5 wheel drive and played $2.25 per spin and WON ZERO with the whole $50...not ONE single win. So, I am pouty and pissed. I dont mind losing, but when I cant even have any fun, at all, GRRRR. Anyway, how can I deposit $100 and play for hours winning and losing but play $1000 and lose it in minutes? Its just nuts!!!
I am so mad that I lost that much, or played that much after recognizing that I have only won big being new to a casino. I would love to chat with you or even exchange emails and maybe we can do some comparing : )
Email me any time
HUGS BACK ATCHA : )
19th November 2003, 08:16 AM
hey girls! This is an interesting discussion. I too thought that I won more frequently on new casinos (new to me). Dice, Carnival and Grand Banks (before they became jerks and went slow pay). But I also noticed, especially on Carnival, that after cashing out 3-4X for several thousand each time that they stopped with the promotional emails and when I inquired about it, they said I could play there but was I was listed as a bonus abuser!!! I won't play where I am not wanted, I spend too much for that kind of treatment. This kind of thing has happened many times. I play I win then I no longer recieve emails. Hmmmm But lately I have jumped on new casinos and had no luck at all. Maybe it has to be a full moon, on a Tuesday, when you are wearing bunny slippers. Ha!
19th November 2003, 05:40 PM
Venetian, Wanda5 & Linda7 now that's got to be a deal made in heaven. In any event, I've read but admittedly only partly digested Wanda5's initial post, that's going to require a second reading. I will admit there is a lot of food for thought, a great many of those questions you've had I've had myself and who knows I may have something to add to this subject as well. Have good one girls.
19th November 2003, 08:30 PM
Wanda I think you have very serious gambling problem.
IMO, anyone who deposit more than 10% of their income into gambling is classified as "addicted gambler".
I'll try to answer some of your questions.
How can they calculate payout?
Slot machine are NOT random, thus it's the worst games that you can play. Suppose they set payout rate to be 95%, which means for every $100 you played, you will loose $5. If you deposit $100 then play 10 times your deposit, it's very likely you will loose $50 and only have $50 left in your account. Not everyone will loose exactly $50 after playing $1000, but if you add their result together, or add up your result over a long time, the payout will approach the set value. (95% for this example)
Where does your money goes? Here is what I know.
For progressive slot machine, the payout is usually lower to compensate the processing fees among casinos. The money goes to the jackpot actually goes to a bank account, usually hold by a third party or the software company. When the jackpot is hit, the player is paid by this account. All the rest of the money goes to the casinos and casinos will pay you the small wins you hit.
Why casinos only care about new players?
There are several reasons for that. Existing players usually spent far less than new players. If a player can play a few years in one casino, chance is he has developed good self-control.
New players also have far less resournce than old players. When they are screwed they might not know what they should do and have to bite the bullet, thus make them easier preys. Another reason new players spend far more than old players is because it's a new casino/games for them and they will play more (and loose more by doing so).
To be honest, I am involved in this online gambling business in some way. While I appreciate your contribution to this industry, I really hate to see people loose more than they can afford because of their addiction. Talk to your friends and family and ask them for help and support. If it is necessary, ask a doctor for suggestions.
19th November 2003, 08:47 PM
Dear Wanda and Linda,
hhcfreebie is really good at math. I believe his caculation even I had no idea how it work.
I won over $2000 on slot at first 2 casino I joined when I started play at online casino at April. ( But I never cash out. Stupid me...) I got hooked on after long winer blue at New England. Luckily, I stop after I lost over $2000 and started to do more online research.
Now I play Black Jack most of time and slots sometimes. Gambling is a very exciting but dangerous hobby. It's very lucky we can afford to play but you need to set the limit.
You girls know I love you as good friends even we never meet (smile~). But I really care about you. Please enjoy this hobby and stay on TOP of it. Don't let it bite you as it happened to me before.
(Message edited by bewitch on November 19, 2003)
19th November 2003, 10:40 PM
hhcfreebie, I had to giggle when I saw this...
"Wanda I think you have very serious gambling problem.
IMO, anyone who deposit more than 10% of their income into gambling is classified as "addicted gambler".
Although I appreciate your concern and the information you provided, I would never spend more than I can afford, I'm too greedy and high maintenance to spend what would affect my lifestyle. As far as spending 10% of MY income, I don't even work, my husband gives me an allowance : ) So to some, what I spend may be a lot of money, but to me its deciding whether I will gamble this week or spend a few K on a few new clothing items from Dolce & Gabanna or my first love which is my ongoing love affair with SHOES. : ) I enjoy the thrill of gambling and being a spoiled housewife with no children (just a very needy pup) it does keep me home and out of the boutiques, which would cost me much more if I left the house more often
lol. Now if you think I have a shopping addiction that would be more believable. If I had a serious gambling problem I don't think that would be able to choose the pair of Manolo Blahnik patent Mary Jane's (which I happen to be the highest bidder on eBay as of now) OVER my gambling : ) So you see, the money is going to go somewhere : ) If anyone knows where I can get help for my shoe addiction, that would be information I could really use!
Also, in all fairness to the casinos, online and land based, I have defiantly won more than I have lost. Even recently, I cashed out $8000 and have spent $3000. I ONLY spend a lot or do BIG bets if I have cashed out a good sum. When I am on a losing streak, I get just pouty enough to quit for a while and I will start up again later.
But don't worry, I have not started selling my jewelry or clothing or shoes (God forbid, not the shoes!) to support my gambling
I guess in a way I sell my body for gambling money, but don't worry that's only to my husband, so I think that's ok. : )
Hope that clears things up. Seeing someone post that "I" have a gambling problem just sounded funny. I know that I should not joke about this to anyone who does have a gambling addiction because that IS serious. I guess if you knew me you would understand.
Anyway, I think its very sweet that even though you have an interest in the casinos, you would care enough to get involved or share information if you think someone has a problem with gambling. I am going to read your post again to absorb all of the information and answers to questions I have.
I still don't understand where our money goes and it is so hard to explain my question, but one thing someone said was that all the progressives are linked together. So are the non progressives only going to pay out what actually goes into the specific game at the specific casino you are playing at? This is important to me because if there was a casino that I rarely hear about, I would assume that not many people play there, so I would assume that their slot machines would have very little money put in to them therefor, very little to pay outs. Just like land based, if you play at a casino that no one goes to, then the machines have less money in them, and would have lesser pay outs right? So wouldn't it make sense to ONLY play at casinos that have a lot of money going into them if they are in fact separate machines....Does that make sense grrrr
lol its just so hard to explain. One more time ...OK i am at Jackpot City (online) I am playing "Reel Thunder" My friend Bewitch : ) is at The Gaming club playing "Reel Thunder" is all the money that we both are putting in go to the same pay outs (one account for the game Reel Thunder) OR can I only win what has actually been played at that game at Jackpot City and Bewitch can only win what money has gone into The Gaming Club? OR are they all connected and pooled together to where if "Reel Thunder" took in a total of $100,000 from all the casinos that day, that would be what they base their pay out percentages on. Also lets say Linda won the max on a royal flush on aces and faces poker at the gaming club, well if they were separate machines, I would not play aces and faces at the gaming club just after Linda won because I would assume its gonna be a while before it pays out again. DOES THAT MAKE MY QUESTION MAKE SENSE ??? lololol
OK I am done now : ) One day I will get that question right
19th November 2003, 11:15 PM
LOL~ Wanda, I really enjoy reading your post. I always have to hold my breath and read it all at once.
It sounds like shopping is a BIGGER problem to you.
LOL It applies to all the women I know. I just spent $150 on some ladies need and gifts for families (told my hobby $70. White lie! ) and was yalled at already. Image I go shopping with you???
Your needy baby looks very cute and won't talk back. It's much easier to deal with than the kids. Enjoy ~ !
(Message edited by bewitch on November 19, 2003)
20th November 2003, 12:31 AM
If the money has to go somewhere, then by all means spend them.
As for the slot machine, payout is NOT effected by how much money the game/machine has. It's determined by random number generator.
In land based casino if you hit something big in a slot machine and it doesn't have enough money to pay you. You can always call them up and the staff will pay you. The money they used to pay you is from the casino.
In online casino, it doesn't matter how many people played on certain games. For example, all the money we lost in the gaming club, be it from black jack, slots or video poker, go to the casino's account. On the other hand, if we win we will be paid by the same account.
Does it make any sense at all?
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