Ladbrokes, Christmas Scrooges.

[vinylweatherman]

Ladbrokes have now joined the ever increasing list of "Neteller Haters".

WTF is it with casinos & Neteller

NO-ONE is prepared to explain WTF this is all about, it just happens. Why ONLY Neteller in many, including this, case(s).

Deposit by card? Nope, 29.9% interest, and NO INTEREST FREE PERIOD because gambling is considered now as a "cash advance" on nearly every card. Mastercard has NEVER worked for me anyway, and NONE of my debit cards will work reliably enough for gambling transactions.

The Christmas promos themselves are not all that inviting, more of those scratchcards promising "up to £60", but delivering a string of £2, £5, and £10 - even £0 is possible.

The rule they have introduced is not entirely clear either. Most promos are deposit x and play y on the game of the day/week/whatever. but the term for Neteller is 20x deposit, which can be open to interpretation. It could simply mean 4x the usual qualifying wager, or an impossible criteria, since wagering 20x is DAMN HARD given the variance on slots, so deposits often have to be added to if one busts before qualifying. If they mean 20x EVERYTHING, one could get into a position of never being able to reach the 20x of the ENTIRE amount deposited, even after depositing many times the required amount.

This applies to all but one promo, but this is NOT good news, since the term for this one simply states "Neteller is disqualified as a deposit method for this promotions".

I say again;

SCROOGE LIVES ON!


I will NOT be paying 29.9% interest on my deposits by using my card (assuming it even works there), so will NOT be participating in this December's Ladbrokes promotions.

Sometime next summer, Ladbrokes will ask me why I stopped playing (again), and I will tell them why. It does at least make a change from my usual reason for uninstalling Ladbrokes, a fiasco with their CS.

Those who DO play these, READ THE TERMS, they HAVE CHANGED this month for Neteller customers, and may change to exclude/load other deposit methods in later months.

KK - tough luck

Maybe this is YOUR FAULT

[SlotMonster]

Holy Sh@t! 29.9% Interest?
What's up with them?

[Casinomeister]

I'm not speaking for Ladbrokes, but I do know there has been massive fraud in the past several months that included Neteller accounts. We've seen Vegas Technologies take similar action.

This may be the reason Neteller deposits are getting Scrooged.

[vinylweatherman]

I'm not speaking for Ladbrokes, but I do know there has been massive fraud in the past several months that included Neteller accounts. We've seen Vegas Technologies take similar action.

This may be the reason Neteller deposits are getting Scrooged.

Neteller are certainly sweeping this under the carpet then. I spoke with a VIP account manager a short while ago on this matter, and she said she was not aware of any merchants "hating" Neteller as a deposit method. She said she would escalate the matter, and I have heard nothing more since.

If there is such concern, I do not believe the merchants have not made Neteller aware of their concerns, so Neteller seem to be denying everything, even when asked specifically about this.

Neteller is regulated by the FSA, and must adhere to high standards of security and customer verification. If they are negligently allowing fraudsters to operate from Neteller accounts, and are so inefficient in policing this that merchants themselves are taking this very public action, Neteller will find their GENUINE customers are forced to "jump ship" to another ewallet not so prone to fraudsters on their systems.

Credit cards have made significant changes to gambling transactions, and have also raised interest rates despite the bank base rate being at a 300 year low. 29.9% is the "cash advance" rate, far higher than the "purchase" rate. Changing gambling transactions from "purchase" to "cash advance" has allowed them to both deny the usual interest free period, AND charge the "cash advance" rate from the day the casino deposit is made, to the day the bill is paid. This can mean having interest bearing casino deposits on the card for up to a month and a half, costing 29.9%.

Only ONE card doesn't do this yet, but it is "full", because all of a sudden the Jackpot Factory have started returning card deposits to the preferred payment method, instead of back to the card, as I was expecting.


Ladbrokes have imposed all this hassle, yet the Christmas promos this year are nowhere near as good as last (probably KK's fault ), certainly not worth the bother of setting up a new deposit method.

I have debit cards, but deposits from them keep getting rejected, so I have given up on this alternative.

If all this is down to problems with fraud, why can't casinos just be honest about this to their GENUINE players who have habitually used Neteller, and suggest alternatives. In fact, a LOYAL player should be treated like a PERSON, and not a number, so surely these LOYAL players should NOT be subject to the Neteller exclusion policy, which should be reserved for NEW players whilst they establish themselves as genuine, and not fraudsters.

Ladbrokes is the LAST casino I would have expected this from, as they are a BRITISH brand, and Neteller is regulated by BRITAIN, through the FSA.

[spiderlegz]

Probably not "fraud". Their bonuses have just been overplayed, theres so little EV+ bonuses left that even the small ones got lot of attention. And the Ladbrokes bonuses were some of the softest.

And I seriously doubt Vegas Technologies has been hit by any Neteller "fraud", they havent had a EV+ bonus for ages.

[HUNTS!!!!!]

VWM if u have a facebook account become a fan of ladbrokes.
ask this question on there where they are inviting people to leave feedback good or bad and put this across to them on there where they have 1000's of customers viewing there answers

[vinylweatherman]

Probably not "fraud". Their bonuses have just been overplayed, theres so little EV+ bonuses left that even the small ones got lot of attention. And the Ladbrokes bonuses were some of the softest.

And I seriously doubt Vegas Technologies has been hit by any Neteller "fraud", they havent had a EV+ bonus for ages.

This is a very weak argument. Players can use a variety of deposit methods to "overplay" these bonuses, and if this was the problem, they would just raise the qualifying WR for ALL players.

The Neteller rules DO point strongly to the "fraud" theory, if the term "Neteller deposits must be wagered 20x to qualify for a bonus" is taken literally to mean the ENTIRE deposit, and not merely the amount required to qualify. Fraudsters might be overdepositing through Neteller, and getting this money out another way. Ladbrokes isn't just a casino, money can be transferred back to the main purse, and this makes it easier to "launder" if there was something dodgy about the initial deposit.

The problem is that Moneybookers can be used in this way too, yet there is no anti Moneybookers term (yet) at Ladbrokes.

UKash is even worse, no audit trail of where the cash came from, could have been a drugs deal, proceeds used to buy UKash vouchers, deposit into casino, out by cheque (as they insist). Surprising some casinos have allowed UKash


My real worry is whether this rampant Neteller fraud will place MY account at risk, as in the recent case "Neteller issues", where someone had their Neteller account "hacked" in some way, and they were robbed by Peer to Peer transfer. The receiving account would have to get the money out, and maybe this is being done by using it to fund casinos, and tricking them into paying out by cheque. Some (most notably Playtech) casinos have even played into the hands of those trying this, claiming they can accept deposits from Neteller, but can't pay back that way, only by cheque.

Neteller is being targeted for a reason, it has a security weakness that is being exploited, and Moneybookers does NOT have the same weakness, or at least have more effective ways of policing fraudulent activity.

Neteller stand to lose out in the end, as if large numbers of merchants start imposing these "Neteller hating" punitive rules, players will seek out other ways to hold gambling money.

It is a pity that there is currently an effective duopoly of Neteller and Moneybookers, with Click2pay being a poor third alternative. All the other deposit methods tend to come with high fees, inconvenience, or both. Deposit methods that can't accept withdrawals are yet another inconvenience, since the method of payment from the casino is likely to be a cheque.

[spiderlegz]

Seriously doubt that theres any "fraud". And if you deposit by Neteller you have to withdraw to Neteller.

They have just seen that players using Neteller are more "costly". Hence they dont want players using Neteller who only plays when there is a bonus. Most likely they make a loss on Neteller players.

[Casinomeister]

Okay, let's reread what I said:

I'm not speaking for Ladbrokes, but I do know there has been massive fraud in the past several months that included Neteller accounts. We've seen Vegas Technologies take similar action.

This may be the reason Neteller deposits are getting Scrooged.

And now some of the comments

...And I seriously doubt Vegas Technologies has been hit by any Neteller "fraud", they havent had a EV+ bonus for ages.

Seriously doubt that theres any "fraud". And if you deposit by Neteller you have to withdraw ro Neteller...

With the amount of work that has been wasted by me and Max dealing with player fraud, it's frustrating when long time members pooh-pooh its (fraud) existence. I know you're not calling me a liar - but it's looking pretty close.

It's a fact. Player fraud has a direct impact on how casinos accept and deliver payments - Neteller for one. I stated earlier that this may or may not be the case here. I was merely giving an example on what may be going on from what I know dealing with a crapload of fraud cases - many involving players with Neteller accounts.

You don't know if this is the case or not; to deny that it is a possibility is just naive.

Instead of speculating on what's up, why don't you just ask?

[vinylweatherman]

Seriously doubt that theres any "fraud". And if you deposit by Neteller you have to withdraw ro Neteller.

They have just seen that players using Neteller are more "costly". Hence they dont want players using Neteller who only plays when there is a bonus. Most likely they make a loss on Neteller players.

Well, surely this is just chance variation. Another month might see them making a net loss to Moneybookers players, and the following month on, credit card players.

Why are they risking alienating players in this way?

They have SUCCEEDED with me, alienated AGAIN, that's TWICE this year, and TWICE last year, although the previous three times were down to their inept CS.

Sure, I could get a Moneybookers account, but they may "ban" this too next month, as "everybody else" might have the same idea, and move from Neteller to Moneybookers to play at those merchant sites that don't like Neteller, but are fine with Moneybookers.

Rushmore did a similar thing recently, but refused to explain the reasoning behind this, despite several attempts to obtain a reason for the thinking behind it. All I got was a lame "the promotional department changes....... from time to time". The Rushmore rule was against both Neteller AND Moneybookers, which is why I don't consider getting a Moneybookers account is the answer.

Players are suffering from this, as they have to create and maintain a larger number of deposit methods, and quite unnecessarily in my view, because of a "war" between merchants and some of the larger players in the eMoney business.

If I split between Moneybookers and Neteller, for example, I could go from being VIP at Neteller, to VIP at neither, because my overall volume is split between the two, and becomes no longer enough at any one of them to qualify for VIP status.

Ladbrokes have also created a minor PR issue by enacting this change at CHRISTMAS, rather than at another time of year, hence my "scrooge" reference, "Christmas? - bah humbug!"