Roulette69 issue - PAB rejected - player upset

[Casinomeister]

For what it's worth, IMO if you are trying to deceive people, that's fraud.

And it's not like this guy has hit a dead end, there are other routes he can take. If he has a solid case, he can address this to the software provider, gaming jurisdiction, or even his lawyer for that matter.

I could have offered him more assistance, but he chose to deal with this like a juvenile and use the fora to beat me up. So that option has been shit-canned.

I have no idea why I put up with this crap.

[Casinomeister]

The bottom line is - when a player is accused of fraud - in this case acting within a syndicate - the casino will not explain their internal fraud investigation procedures, and they certainly won't share the details of other players with these people as well.

And this seems to be a standard operating procedure for these types of players: they accuse me of being crook - of taking "hush" money, of "protecting" my cash flow in the most public fora. They make these taunts hoping that I'll "cave" and tell them detail by detail what they did wrong.

Sorry - this doesn't work.

[KasinoKing]

The bottom line is - when a player is accused of fraud - in this case acting within a syndicate - the casino will not explain their internal fraud investigation procedures, and they certainly won't share the details of other players with these people as well.

Obviously you know more details than I, but can you be 100% sure the casino is correct?
Remember the Fortune Lounge fraud fiasco where masses of innocent players got tarred as fraudsters? Eventually FL admitted they had made a mistake and put things right.
If it can happen once, it can happen again.

Personally I am leaning towards believing the OP here and I would also like to have more details of the casino's case against him. For me it's all just too vague...

KK

[Casinomeister]

Obviously you know more details than I, but can you be 100% sure the casino is correct?
Remember the Fortune Lounge fraud fiasco where masses of innocent players got tarred as fraudsters? Eventually FL admitted they had made a mistake and put things right.
If it can happen once, it can happen again.

Personally I am leaning towards believing the OP here and I would also like to have more details of the casino's case against him. For me it's all just too vague...

KK

You're referring to a completely different situation. The FL fiasco had to do with FL having bad terms and conditions, and they locked players accounts because they didn't like the way they played. There was a large amount of fraud involved as well - and these guys were busted, and their accounts were locked. The players who were told at first they wouldn't be paid eventually were paid.

This is an issue of a player belonging to a syndicate. I'm not going to entertain this thread any more with findings etc. If you want to believe this guy - go ahead. I don't believe him, Max doesn't, and neither does the casino.

[LonelyHearts]

All I would like to know is. The OP stated he won without a bonus; with his own money. Is this true or not?

[Nifty29]

All I would like to know is. The OP stated he won without a bonus; with his own money. Is this true or not?

His last deposit was without a bonus - HOWEVER - and its a BIG HOWEVER - it seems he was part of a syndicate which is a huge no-no and every casino has terms prohibiting this kind of play as it involves defrauding the casino.

Therefore, it is immaterial whether he deposited and won with or without a bonus as ALL his play and winnings are void.

You might also want to check out CM's earlier post where he links to another post by the OP (or his 'friend' or whatever) saying he was going to give R69 a try. Seems too much of a co-incidence to me.

One thing I know from experience when it comes to online gaming fraud and people claiming they were 'ripped off' and 'scammed' and that they had their accounts locked and winnings confiscated when they did 'nothing wrong' .....when there is smoke there is almost always fire and the poster usually turns out to be as full of wind as a butchers' dog.

As I said, $50 to charity if Im wrong and a public apology to the OP. I havent written it yet.

[newjam]

This thread is very confusing. On the one hand the op says he won with his own funds playing slots. On the other hand we have the accusation that he is a fraudster by the casino supported by CM. Can we have some clarification please?

a)Did he win playing slots without a bonus?

b)What is the basis of the accusation of fraud?

If he won playing slots without a bonus what kind of fraudlent behaviour justifies confiscation of winnings?

People read this forum so they can decide whether or not a casino is safe to play at, and one of the characteristics of rogues is that they will look for any excuse not to pay a big win. Until we get some clarification, how can we know R69 are not rogue?

[maxd]

Bryan has made our position clear and spelled out the law.

I'm going to color in the margins a little, just for context.

The OP has made numerous claims against us and our procedures here, using someone else's account I might add, and that prompts me to want to make a few things clear:

* The OP lied to the casino, which is (part) of what got them banned. They had their chance -- multiple times as it happens -- to explain themselves and their situation to the casino and they chose to lie about it repeatedly. The casino had the proof for some time yet they persisted with the player, giving them the opportunity time and time again to clear up the confusion. All they got were more lies and misdirection. Eventually they'd had enough and shut the player down.

* When I came on board the PABer conveniently skipped all of the above, said nothing of the background regarding multiple account issues, etc and lied to me too, and more than once as I recall.

* The decision in this case was not made in haste nor without careful consideration. I came to my conclusion and asked Bryan's opinion before proceeding with the action against the player. He reviewed the file on the guy and arrived at the same conclusion I did. We then shut the case and the PABer down.

* As is standard procedure in such cases I invited the player to compose a final letter to the casino regarding their case which I would forward to them. This is a final opportunity for the player to state their case, plead their innocence, etc. He completely ignored this and went straight to the threats and accusations, first privately and then here on the forum. Again, this behaviour is typical fraudster MO.

* Throughout this entire process the player has asked over and over "show me the evidence, show me the proof". This is the textbook fraudster appeal because that's what they really want. It's far more valuable to know how they got caught than it is to actually seek a resolution to their case. That is why the evidence is not made available to the player and won't be made available to the public. Simply put it would harm the risk assessment efforts at the casino and that's somewhere they do not want to go. We understand that and respect their needs in this regard.

* And here in this thread the player has continued their MO of lies, distortions and manipulations:

• to say as they do in the thread's title that the PAB was "rejected without evidence" is totally and willfully misrepresenting the situation. The player knows full well that the PAB was processed to completion and the final results were based on evidence from the casino, as even they said later in the thread.
• they claim here to have "broken no Terms" yet have openly admitted to the casino and to us in the PAB that they know that yes they did break the Terms but want to be paid anyway. This is manipulation of the facts as it suits their needs. No one should be rewarded for that kind of duplicity.
• they implied that no communication had been sent to them in the course of the PAB. Another lie as the multiple emails I have on file to and from the player attest to.
• they make accusations and innuendos that Casinomeister is corrupt, beholden to the casinos, whatever. If we're so bloody rotten why is this person here busy trying to get us to help them with their issue? Because the accusations and innuendos are meant to bully us into giving him what he wants which is the evidence the casino has against him. As explained above, that's what fraudsters want. Honest players just want their money and a fair ruling.
• using another member's account to circumvent a ban is strictly verbotten as they well know. Again, they believe their need is greater so damn the Rules and they'll do what they like. Charming.

The bottom line is that this person has repeatedly lied, distorted the facts, and misrepresented themselves. They did this to the casino, to us and to the members of this forum. And they did it all simply to get what they want, namely the evidence against them. They deserve to be thrown to the curb which is what the PAB closure and subsequent ban were supposed to do.

Finally I think those of you who time and time again pipe up with "post the proof!" and "prove it to us!" need to take a good hard look at yourselves and ask what it is you really want. First of all it's not going to happen: we often have to give our word that such evidence will not be shared in order to get the evidence in the first place. That's just part of how the process works.

Next, if you'll notice, this isn't the first time Bryan has been aggravated by situations like this to the point where he's asked out loud "why do I bother?" Someday he's not going to bother anymore which means the PABs will be history and the very thing that gives you the opportunity to appeal your cases to the casino will be gone. Not to mention the fact that I'll be out of a job. Is that _really_ what you want?

If yes then keep it up because you may well get your wish. If not then I suggest you recognize that trust in us and the procedures we've established is an essential part of the PAB process. Support us in that and the PAB process will continue to work. Choose to do otherwise and some day it'll be you with a complaint and nowhere to take it. When that day comes you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

[Webzcas]

Great post Max

To those who question the impartiality of the Pitch a Bitch Service that Bryan provides via this site for free. I would like to mention the fact that whether a casino is listed as accredited or not has no bearing on the decision that Bryan and Max come to. Indeed it is not uncommon for accredited casinos to fall by the wayside as a result of a PAB.

BTW how Casinomeister.com generates a revenue stream has no impact on a PAB and is completely irrelevant IMO.

I find it quite amazing that a poster who has no history on this forum, suddenly opens an account, submits a PAB then goes shouting foul using another account when the decision reached is one he was not hoping for.

I also find it quite amazing that some forum members of long standing who know how Bryan and Max operate have been taken in somewhat by the op.

The bottom line is that this person has repeatedly lied, distorted the facts, and misrepresented themselves. They did this to the casino, to us and to the members of this forum. And they did it all simply to get what they want, namely the evidence against them. They deserve to be thrown to the curb which is what the PAB closure and subsequent ban were supposed to do.

Max hits the nail squarely on the head there.

[chuchu59]

Max,

No need to take it the hard way. There are often instances when not all facts can be revealed and I cannot see why you would have refused the PAB without evidence when you have successfully helped a multitude of other PABers. In a court, a policeman would not have to really prove that a jaywalker had committed an offence simply because there is no reason why he should be prejudiced against the defendant.

There are times when I would have liked to know more about the case in question but somehow it seems there are a lot of holes in the OP's words. Furthermore, as you have stated, why bother with posting at CM if he feels his case is not getting a fair hearing. The mind boggles.