Roulette69 issue - PAB rejected - player upset

[jackieonweb]

My worry is that I will be caught up in something like this myself by mistake, and I will be told that I can't be told what I did that was wrong. Doesn't that worry people?

So far the only thing this guy has been proved of doing wrong is using his colleagues CM account to post on here. He's been told he's used multiple accounts but there seems to be no motive for doing it (no binus slot play) and no evidence of his wrongdoing has been presented to him. All sonds odd, like I said before.

[Nifty29]

The main reason that specific methods to detect fraud are not revealed in public is because it would encourage the fraudsters to use different methods to circumvent that specific process.

One very important thing that many people are missing is that Bryan and Max HAVE SEEN THIS INFORMATION - they have reviewed it independently and have come to the same conclusion as the operator. This is NOT a case of the operator stonewalling everyone and stating 'the player is a fraudster' and offering no evidence to support it.

So, which ever way you look at it, again it comes down to a very simple question - DO YOU TRUST BRYAN AND MAX OR NOT?? Remember...THEY have all the facts and we dont....and we are NOT GOING TO.....so yet again its back to the original question about trust.

You're welcome to stop reading this Thread!

If YOU dont agree with MY opinion, then why are YOU still reading this thread? Geez talk about childish.

I see where some others are coming from in regards to wanting all the facts, but we have to face the fact that we are not going to get them. So you either believe CM who has proven he CAN be trusted, or the OP who has proven that they CANT.

Its fine for everyone to have different opinions - in fact its essential. However, we need to be adult about it and not get personal and aggessive. I dont have any vested interest in whether the OP is paid or not, but I do think that if we all start questioning the integrity of the PAB system and the people involved then we might find that membership 'privilege' (and that is what it is) discontinued and then we ALL lose.

Did he win playing slots without a bonus?

If the account was fraudulent to begin with then the point is moot.

At least tell everyone how is was defrauding the casino by playing slots with no bonus, we're not children we can handle it. this all sounds very strange.

Again, the cart before the horse.

IMHO it really is very simple...how long do you think a person would last at a casino in Vegas if the casino thought they were part of a syndicate, lieing, cheating, etc.? Who is the advocate for that person and do you think they will get their deposits back as a goodwill gesture? Not in this lifetime and you will be booted out and blacklisted in a heartbeat. Here we have advocates and to trash them IMHO is in VERY poor taste.

Good point. Remember that the players deposits were returned in full, which is hardly the behaviour of a rogue casino. A rogue casino will confiscate the lot in most cases.

Actually there have been cases in the past, and it was a case a while back (couple years ago), so that isnt true.

@uungy - do you remember what casino etc or the member involved? I will happily retract my statement if Im proven wrong.

I respect everyone's views here, but its not guilty unless proven inncocent.

If you trust Bryan and Max and what they have stated, then guilt has been proven (only the fine details have been withheld for reasons explained by Bryan and Max)

If you dont know facts, don't base them on someone else's views, have your own reasonig

A fair comment, but the only views that count when it comes to the player being paid etc are the casinos and CM's, and these have been made very clear. Im sure you have been in situations where you have to make a decision based in part on advice from another person who has access to more information than yourself, and this is the case here. Nobody can be fully informed all the time, and sometimes we have to trust the word of others who have demonstrated that they can be trusted in the past.

There is no other way to say it....if you wont take Bryans' word for it, then you're calling his integrity into question. Forget about the casino or the OP or me or anyone else for that matter - you either believe what Bryan says or you dont.

I know Im going to cop flak, but why would you hang around a site where you didnt trust the owner??? Think about it.

** The issue at hand is NOTHING TO DO WITH WINNINGS WITHOUT A BONUS - it is about identity fraud and THAT is why the player has his winnings confiscated. I mean, if the player had won on the signup or 2nd deposit bonus and been found out at the point would we even be having this discussion?? Yes, legitimate winnings from ANY deposit should be paid out, but if the account was fraudulent then the winnings were void ergo there were no winnings. The only one who made an issue about the non-bonus winnings was the OP....Bryan didnt mention anything about it because it is not relevant to why their account was locked etc.

[RobWin]

Sorry...nothing personal (and I'm not being argumentative) but I want to know which casino is going to give me my winnings after I have been caught cheating? Please ......I'll be right there

There are hundreds of land based casinos that have done just that over the past few decades. If you want to find out exactly which ones those are then just do a little research. There is a lot of public information out there regarding this.
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[RobWin]

Rob, I just wonder if you are basing this on a respected and trusted loud mouth's casino rep.'s mouth as he claimed Bryan tried to negoiate an affiliate deal with him but as far as I was told that never worked out.

Nah Nash, just basing it on basic common sense knowledge and being around online casinos and sites like CM's here for over 13 years now..
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[felicie]

I agree with you Nifty29 but the fact that we CAN discuss our different feelings in regards to this post or any other post is one of the best things about this forum. It doesn't mean we don't trust Bryan, Max or anyone else, it just means we are free to discuss it and we are. Well thats my feeling anyway. Thank you

[Nifty29]

There are hundreds of land based casinos that have done just that over the past few decades. If you want to find out exactly which ones those are then just do a little research. There is a lot of public information out there regarding this.

I believe you 100%. However, online casinos are a different animal in that they cant see you in the flesh and identity fraud and multiple accounts etc are things that are a huge problem for them as a result. It may also be that BM casinos do this as it would be difficult to ascertain how much money the player started the day with so the idea of just returning the 'deposit' is impossible. Online casinos have specific details on deposits etc which is why they are able to do it. IMO they shouldnt even get those back if they are cheating.

I agree with you Nifty29 but the fact that we CAN discuss our different feelings in regards to this post or any other post is one of the best things about this forum. It doesn't mean we don't trust Bryan, Max or anyone else, it just means we are free to discuss it and we are. Well thats my feeling anyway. Thank you

Absolutely. Feelings and thoughts and opinions.....bring 'em on! The more, the merrier. I respect all of them, even if they are at odds with my own. However, at the end of the day a decision has been made by Bryan and we need to either accept it and trust his judgement or risk bringing his integrity into question. The trust part here is in the acceptance.

[uungy]

@uungy - do you remember what casino etc or the member involved? I will happily retract my statement if Im proven wrong.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post161466

there are a couple more, but I remember this one

[bryand]

Your statement makes no sense. We aren't talking about damaging some merchandise. We are talking about someone playing with their "so-called" own money and Winning!

Would it help you to understand the logic if I said the store had a posted policy banning anyone from the store that was caught damaging or stealing merchandise?

Now do you get it?

[Nifty29]

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post161466

there are a couple more, but I remember this one

OK I read the thread - theres 30 mins of my life Ill never get back.

Whilst this players' account was re-opened after being re-examined by the casino, I dont see anywhere that Bryan said "we got it wrong and this player is 100% in the right and we apologise for any inferences we may have drawn from what the casino showed us" (that is what I expect Bryan would have posted if it was all wrong).

All I could find that resembled that is:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post162548

...and it certainly doesnt say that at all.

You may find it interesting to note that the member concerned was banned for having multiple forum accounts.....so that usually speaks volumes about a persons' integrity and probably makes it more likely the casino was right in the first place. Also, there was no admission of a mistake, its just the casino decided to give the player the benefit of the doubt.

You remember this one as you were heavily involved in that thread, and Bryan helped you to have your account unlocked in similar circumstances. You trusted him then.

OK, so if we count this as a 'we got it wrong' case, and you say there are a few more (lets say 5 for argument sake) in the past few years......lets ask Max for a figure of how many PAB's have been declined due to fraud etc in that time. I'll bet the % of 'we got it wrongs' is miniscule.

[jas2587]

OK I read the thread - theres 30 mins of my life Ill never get back.

Whilst this players' account was re-opened after being re-examined by the casino, I dont see anywhere that Bryan said "we got it wrong and this player is 100% in the right and we apologise for any inferences we may have drawn from what the casino showed us" (that is what I expect Bryan would have posted if it was all wrong).

All I could find that resembled that is:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post162548

...and it certainly doesnt say that at all.

You may find it interesting to note that the member concerned was banned for having multiple forum accounts.....so that usually speaks volumes about a persons' integrity and probably makes it more likely the casino was right in the first place. Also, there was no admission of a mistake, its just the casino decided to give the player the benefit of the doubt.

You remember this one as you were heavily involved in that thread, and Bryan helped you to have your account unlocked in similar circumstances. You trusted him then.

OK, so if we count this as a 'we got it wrong' case, and you say there are a few more (lets say 5 for argument sake) in the past few years......lets ask Max for a figure of how many PAB's have been declined due to fraud etc in that time. I'll bet the % of 'we got it wrongs' is miniscule.

agreed
Cindy