Grand Slam of Slots

**DiamondGeezer** · 3rd October 2009, 10:34 PM

While it's true this would not have happened in poker your analagy is not very meaningful. In poker very good players will just but a seat at face value knowing they have a big EV advantage over players of lesser ability. But this can't be the case with slots. The true value of these tickets can never be much more than �111 so any player who spent vast amounts in feeder tournaments was miscalculating anyway.

This sort of thing happens all the time in real life. It's just demand and supply at work. Yes it is harsh on some players but for others it will be an opportunity. And if it's 9000 players or 8000 does not affect the ticket value much.

It must be hard to gauge something like this when you run it for the first time. But if it means they will run it again it must be in the interests of most players. This is still a very new industry and there are bound to be mistakes.

How does this tournament work? Are there rebuys involved? If there are then you would have to have very deep pockets to even stand a chance. If there are rebuys then it is hardly worth doing IMO. You could get a footballer etc who would think nothing of punting 20K at it. It could well attract professional syndicates and the like.

**De Beuker** · 6th October 2009, 12:43 AM

Just received an Email from Ladbrokes that I've won an entry to the final!

Must have been that Loaded tourney last week, already forgot about it.
Came in 8th position, but with 5 days left never thought I would keep that (only the top 10 would receive an entry) but I did..nice!

**vinylweatherman** · 6th October 2009, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by DiamondGeezer

While it's true this would not have happened in poker your analagy is not very meaningful. In poker very good players will just but a seat at face value knowing they have a big EV advantage over players of lesser ability. But this can't be the case with slots. The true value of these tickets can never be much more than �111 so any player who spent vast amounts in feeder tournaments was miscalculating anyway.

This sort of thing happens all the time in real life. It's just demand and supply at work. Yes it is harsh on some players but for others it will be an opportunity. And if it's 9000 players or 8000 does not affect the ticket value much.

It must be hard to gauge something like this when you run it for the first time. But if it means they will run it again it must be in the interests of most players. This is still a very new industry and there are bound to be mistakes.

How does this tournament work? Are there rebuys involved? If there are then you would have to have very deep pockets to even stand a chance. If there are rebuys then it is hardly worth doing IMO. You could get a footballer etc who would think nothing of punting 20K at it. It could well attract professional syndicates and the like.

I later checked, only around 3500 are showing as currently registered. Perhaps MGS are in a panic

By cutting price, and inflating the number of entrants, there will be a bigger pool of players available who might be tempted with rebuys, which are a mere �20.

What IS a bit "slimy" on the part of MGS is that when the Grand Slam was launched, MGS said CATEGORICALLY that these tickets were NOT for sale, but ONLY available to be WON. NO matter HOW many players took part in the various feeders, promos, etc the tickets ALLOCATED to these events MUST have been WON by SOMEONE.
Now, there are tickets to BUY. This suggests that all along MGS INTENDED tickets would be FOR SALE as well as available to be won, so yes, players who were given FALSE INFORMATION early on, WERE screwed if they acted upon it and spent fortunes trying to win these "exclusive" tickets.

It will be MGS who get screwed NEXT time though, if they run another "Grand Slam", because I am sure that when MGS start out with the "these cannot be bought........" BS early on, players will remember what happened THIS time, and may decide to call MGS's bluff, and NOT spend fortunes chasing the tickets, but sit back, watch the numbers registered, and wait for the inevitable "fire sale" if the take up from ticket winners seems low.

It would have been better to run more feeder tournaments to get rid of this "surplus stock". MGS would have got themselves the numbers, but WITHOUT any accusations of a "U-Turn" over the "cannot be bought" status of the tickets.

This is NOT the ONLY time I have seen a tournament advertised only for "winners of feeders", but found that you can simply BUY your way into the final at the last minute.

It seems that MGS CAN ALWAYS BE BOUGHT

**DiamondGeezer** · 6th October 2009, 01:29 AM

Yes as you say there doesn't really seem to be any excuse when you put it like that. The poker guys always seem to be able to work out these feeders expertly and it would have been a far better approach than just selling them.

Somehow MG have not been good at getting the message accross about this Grand Slam. I have personally been put off by the rebuy element. Especially if they are unlimited. It pretty well excludes the social player as you will get professionals who will do hundreds of rebuys if they think it is the correct play. Are the rebuys unlimited?

**vinylweatherman** · 6th October 2009, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by DiamondGeezer

Yes as you say there doesn't really seem to be any excuse when you put it like that. The poker guys always seem to be able to work out these feeders expertly and it would have been a far better approach than just selling them.

Somehow MG have not been good at getting the message accross about this Grand Slam. I have personally been put off by the rebuy element. Especially if they are unlimited. It pretty well excludes the social player as you will get professionals who will do hundreds of rebuys if they think it is the correct play. Are the rebuys unlimited?

I looked in earlier today, around 3700 registered, not very promising for MGS, and shows a lack of interest in the current "fire sale".

Remember, many players will have SEVERAL seats, because MGS decided that they would let players win a ticket PER CASINO.

I have to admit I was "sitting pretty" from the outset, and most certainly have NOT been screwed, as I was given a FREE VIP PASS at All Slots, one of the first 200 to be registered.

Rebuys are a mere �20, so WHY would I bother buying ANOTHER seat, even at �75. The cost of entry ONLY covers the FIRST ROUND too!!! there are THREE continues.

Rebuys are set at 999, but are billed as "unlimited". Maybe it really IS only 999, with "unlimited" meaning no player will have the time to get through all 999 rebuys in the time allowed.

Professional players may well consider repeatedly paying �20 for another shot is more than worth it because of the staggering top prize. All they need is ONE cracking first round at this rather low variance slot (Tomb Raider), and they may have enough for first prize.
Niow for high rollers, what slot costs �20 per spin, with a chance of a �1,000,000 line win (other than a Mega Moolah class progressive).

To try 1000 times would take �20,000 - and a few "professional" types might think it worth the investment because they will be up against a VERY SMALL number of like minded and dedicated players. Social players may just have a few rounds, or maybe even stick with the round they won (or got free). For these "professional" high rollers, their "status" would probably qualify them for bonuses on their �20,000 deposits, which in turn could cut the amount of their own money used.

For an MG casino with no game restrictions, as soon as you only have bonus balance left (which you cannot use for tournaments), bet �20 on Red or Black (Roulette), or a �20 BJ bet, and you could fund quite a few rebuys by repeatedly using any win that creates cash balance for the Grand Slam, and trying again with the bonus to win another �20.

The levelling factor of course is the 1 hour max playtime, "professional" players with fast, tuned, PCs will have NO advantage over those with slower PCs, or a slow internet connection, UNLIKE the regular tournaments, where a speedy kit gives a degree of advantage.

**DiamondGeezer** · 7th October 2009, 11:16 PM

If you have unlimited rebuys the true value of the original ticket is almost zero for the social player. This is why MG are more than happy to sell them at �75. They will have got their sums right and calculated the average rebuy amount which is what will bump up the take so much.

How long will the original entry last? Can you vary your stake size or do you all play at the same stake? Whichever it is it must be designed to make sure a lot of players bust out early and rebuy. Also I am not clear about the THREE continues you talk about. Is this different to the rebuys?

I hope MG are reading this. To me as a casual player it seems incredibly complicated to the point where I am frightened off. If I could pay a certain amount say �50 and compete for a big prize in a fair game then I would definitely be interested. �50K would do me let alone �1 million. But this competition seems shrouded in mystery. I am too worried I am competing against a syndicate with some monstrous pc configuration that will give me zero chance. I would like to play but this seems like a comp strictly for the professionals.

**monkeymagic** · 8th October 2009, 12:50 AM

Another classic from the mighty Ladbrokes.

Rearrange these two words Mr. Ladbrokes sir thingymebob -

REBUYS UNLIMITED

So what's with the highlighted entry in red?

FFS. Either you are missing the point completely (which is more than likely considering the fact that you are still employing electronically tagged teenage delinquents) or you are treating your customers like idiots.

Yuk, yuk, yukkety yuk.

**vinylweatherman** · 9th October 2009, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by monkeymagic

Another classic from the mighty Ladbrokes.

Rearrange these two words Mr. Ladbrokes sir thingymebob -

REBUYS UNLIMITED

So what's with the highlighted entry in red?

FFS. Either you are missing the point completely (which is more than likely considering the fact that you are still employing electronically tagged teenage delinquents) or you are treating your customers like idiots.

Yuk, yuk, yukkety yuk.

Nothing, it is an MGS condition, not a Ladbrokes one. In fact, MGS had a change of heart, and an individual player can now have MORE than one entry, but at DIFFERENT casinos.

A ticket for a player WITHOUT an entry may be worth paying �75 for, or even competing for, but because of the "unlimited" rebuys at �20, it makes no sense for a player who ALREADY has a seat to compete/pay for another, as it would merely be another "free rebuy", worth �20.

Players who feel they have no chance against "professionals" attracted by the large first prize may well be right BECAUSE rebuys are UNLIMITED, and thus may be reluctant to part with even �75 for a go as a "social player".

For "social" players to have a fair chance, rebuys should have been restricted to a small number per seat, such as is the case for the Weekender (it was last time I looked).

**JHV** · 9th October 2009, 11:18 PM

There was always going to be a mad rush to dump free tickets - and the problem I initially thought about that was what's stopping the casinos from dumping these tickets to friends of employees and whatnot.

Now, they're selling them off *and* offering unlimited rebuys basically. It's probably slightly better than canceling the tournament (which I suspect they've considered at some point), but only marginally less 'unethical'.

If their intent was always to sell tickets at some point, then I completely agree with vinylweatherman - that's REALLY out of line from MGS and players would have gotten screwed had they acted on the assumption that MGS would stick to their word with the whole "tickets must be won" policy.

**Jufo** · 10th October 2009, 01:58 PM

I think it was foreseeable that tickets would be handed out at reduced prize towards that start of the tournament. As for someone who paid 150� for a ticket, well you can buy expensive jacket from a shop for a full prize or wait until it is on 50% sale, so I don't see how this would be different from that.

Also it not difficult to estimate that the true value of Grand Slam ticket is around 20� - 50� (depending on average number of re-buys per player, which I estimate is somewhere between 5-10) so paying anything more than that is a bad decision EV wise, but then again someone might still be willing to pay 150� for just a very small chance to get the jackpot.

Originally Posted by Winylweatherman

A ticket for a player WITHOUT an entry may be worth paying �75 for, or even competing for, but because of the "unlimited" rebuys at �20, it makes no sense for a player who ALREADY has a seat to compete/pay for another, as it would merely be another "free rebuy", worth �20.

The one difference with another seat would be that you can have more than one winning position whereas with re-buys only the highest score counts and you won't get payout for a second highest score even if it was high enough to get a prize.