How slot machines may work, an update!!!

[hippo925]

The following was a post by dannyandf on a forum called slotmachines forum and credit to the author is given at the end i believe. A while back, i tried to explain my thoughts of how online slots may be more like playing a lottery instead of traditional landbased slots with real random number generators. The post was in resonse to some issues that the Oregon lottery had with one of their "slot-like" machines Davinci Diamonds (i think we've all seen this one in casinos.) Basically, it shows that MAYBE online slots don't work the way we think.... though they can still be somewhat random:

" The gambling machines at American Indian-owned casinos in Snohomish County are among the region's most popular ways to pass the time. The flashing lights and ringing bells of the machines transport local residents to Las Vegas, and there's always a chance of winning big.

But they're not really slot machines.

The tribes and state gambling supervisors call them "slot-style" machines. It may seem like a nit-picky distinction, but there's a big difference between the slot machines in Las Vegas and other gambling hot spots and the slot-style machines in Washington state.

Slot machines, like those in Las Vegas, have a random number generator inside the machine, according to the Washington Indian Gaming Association. Winnings at each machine are solely based on that machine's number generator.

Slot-style machines are electronic versions of scratch lottery tickets. All the slot-style machines are connected to a collective number generator. At the Tulalip Casino, Angel of the Winds Casino or other gambling halls in the state, playing the "slots" means playing against everyone sitting at a machine.

"They look similar to a slot machine, but you're actually purchasing an electronic scratch ticket," said Ernest Stebbins, executive director of the Washington Indian Gaming Association.
When tribes in Washington State first negotiated the right to open casinos, state officials said gambling machines should operate on the same basis as the state lottery system, Stebbins said.

That means there's no difference between sitting at a slot-style machine in a local casino and standing at the counter at a convenience store to repeatedly purchase scratch lottery tickets. But convenience store clerks don't ring bells when someone wins or ask gamblers if they'd like a cocktail.

Reporter Krista J. Kapralos: 425-339-3422 or kkapralos@heraldnet.com. "


What do you guys think? Possible that some online software is designed this way too?

[thelawnet]

What do you guys think? Possible that some online software is designed this way too?

There are two kinds of slots online. The Las Vegas random kind, making up nearly all the slot machines online, and the British 'fruit machine' variety. All fruit machines are clearly labelled as such or as 'Amusements With Prizes'. They are not random as the payout is dependent on the money that has gone in.

As it explains in that article, the reason they operate slots any other way than 'random' is because some regulator told them to. Random is better, but their hands are tied.

Online casinos are not restricted as to how their games are operated, so they don't run crappy lottery-style slots.

[hippo925]

You know, i actually thought a LOT more people would have been interested in this story. Slot machines that are actually lottery tickets in B&M casinos!!! Am i seriously one of the only few people who understands the possible implications of this story in relation to understanding how online slots work?

[hippo925]

There are two kinds of slots online. The Las Vegas random kind, making up nearly all the slot machines online, and the British 'fruit machine' variety. All fruit machines are clearly labelled as such or as 'Amusements With Prizes'. They are not random as the payout is dependent on the money that has gone in.

As it explains in that article, the reason they operate slots any other way than 'random' is because some regulator told them to. Random is better, but their hands are tied.

Online casinos are not restricted as to how their games are operated, so they don't run crappy lottery-style slots.

I think you may be making a big assumption that most online slot machines operate like the "the las vegas random kind." And actually, even if online slots worked like a lottery, it would still be random unless you know which spin or scratch card is the winner. They can still be set to 95% RTP, they still have a random number generator.

It would just mean that the reels and displays mean NOTHING. IF online slots worked this way as well, it would mean, just like a lottery, that the casino never has any risk. (for example, if the casino gave out 10 cards (or spins) for $1, and only one card was a winner for $9.... that's a 90% RTP and still random to us except that if someone won the $9 first, you now know that you cannot win it.)

What would be better for a casino? A lottery type online slot or a truly random one? Remember, there would be NO way for anyone to tell the difference.

[katodog]

You know, i actually thought a LOT more people would have been interested in this story. Slot machines that are actually lottery tickets in B&M casinos!!! Am i seriously one of the only few people who understands the possible implications of this story in relation to understanding how online slots work?

I am very interested in this! I would hate it to be like a scratch ticket. I would prefer to believe it is random. But how can we tell the difference? hmmmm.................

[thelawnet]

You know, i actually thought a LOT more people would have been interested in this story. Slot machines that are actually lottery tickets in B&M casinos!!! Am i seriously one of the only few people who understands the possible implications of this story in relation to understanding how online slots work?

Like I said, they do it like this in a few casinos because some dumb-ass politician told them to. Stop worrying.

[thelawnet]

I think you may be making a big assumption that most online slot machines operate like the "the las vegas random kind." And actually, even if online slots worked like a lottery, it would still be random unless you know which spin or scratch card is the winner. They can still be set to 95% RTP, they still have a random number generator.

It would just mean that the reels and displays mean NOTHING. IF online slots worked this way as well, it would mean, just like a lottery, that the casino never has any risk. (for example, if the casino gave out 10 cards (or spins) for $1, and only one card was a winner for $9.... that's a 90% RTP and still random to us except that if someone won the $9 first, you now know that you cannot win it.)

What would be better for a casino? A lottery type online slot or a truly random one? Remember, there would be NO way for anyone to tell the difference.

Doesn't matter. Casino is guaranteed to win, because so many spins are played. If you did 1 million spins at 95% the casino is CERTAIN to come out ahead. Have you not noticed those progressive jackpots? Sometimes they get hit twice in a few days, sometimes it takes months. The casino are comfortable with this, because the maths say they will come out ahead in the end.

Seriously, casinos don't need to worry about variance. That's why they have bet size limits. If a new casino is offering $1000 video poker - worry. If Ladbrokes are offering it - not a problem.

[casinojack]

re: RTG, Have you ever seen this?

http://www.realtimegaming.com/certification.pdf

There is some more info out there also,but as far as any of the big guys out there, all games (slots etc )are not linked together...

[hippo925]

re: RTG, Have you ever seen this?

http://www.realtimegaming.com/certification.pdf

There is some more info out there also,but as far as any of the big guys out there, all games (slots etc )are not linked together...

thanks casinojack! it was already explained by our resident rtg expert how rtg slots work and it does seem to be like "vegas" slots in rtg's case.

and really, this is just an interesting topic because, though i agree with katadog that i would prefer online slots to be like "vegas" slots, even if it was like a scratch ticket... isn't it still pretty random?

But it really points to the fact you really have to trust the software provider and it seems even more reason to stick with the "big" ones. If slots POSSIBLY can be programmed to play differently from what everyone thinks, it makes you wonder what other kind of programming can be implemented.

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

[DogBoy001]

Heya,

Lottery-style and bingo-based slots (such as class II US machines) tend to be a quirk found in some jurisdictions that ban random spinning reel slot machines (by random, I mean independent un-weighted reel stops driven by RNG results, followed by win evaluation, and with no reference to the history of play before or after any given spin)

Random spinning reel slots enjoy tremendous popularity, so in jurisdictions where these are banned, but other mechanisms are allowed, you tend to find machines that have the semblance of a slot machine, but function and play very differently.

The systems have limitations, and I doubt you'd ever want to use a system of this type unless one was forced to by jurisdictional rules.

Woooof