ND Winner (?) at Cuba Club- your thoughts?

[funeral979]

In my quest to find a new RTG to play at, I decided to give Cuba Club a go tonite. I redeemed their $10 free chip, not really looking for more than maybe a half an hour or so of entertainment. Well much to my surprise, I did VERY well on it.

The terms of this chip were 20x playthru on slots with a $50 max cash out. So I started playing Paydirt at .25 and got a good feature, then got some features at T-Rex to bring my balance hovering around $40. Then I went to Mystic Dragon betting .50 a spin. After some time I managed my first feature ever on this game and it hit for a little over $700!! Now this was my biggest RTG win in probably 6 months, and I must say I was pretty excited but also a little disappointed that I would not benefit more than $50 fom this. Anyhow I went on to Year of the Whatever and played that for awhile.....still had about $720 in my account and went to cashier and I believe my playthru was at $190...just $10 more to go.

So I thought I would go try some of the newer games that I haven't played that much on and have a little fun before I cashed out my $50. Well I went to Loose Caboose and starting spinning at $6.25.....after a few spins I looked up and noticed my balance was about $40! Now I was more than a little pissed. I had no idea that they would take out the excess as soon as wagering requirements were complete. I have never seen this before, and I have played and won on many max cashout bonuses in the past (although none recently I must admit). I don't know if this is something new that can be done with the RTG software or not?

Well perhaps foolishly I played on in hopes to get my balance back to $50 so I could cashout, but of course as luck would have it, I was unable to do so. So I shot off an email to Cuba Club to see what they could do....and await their reply.

I obviously had nothing to gain, not even comp points as they don't have a comp point system unless you are a VIP. I was just trying out some games I haven't played much before I cashed out. I know its only $50, but still....it doesn't sit well with me that all my extra credits just disappeared in the blink of an eye. Of course I would have stopped right at $50 if I had known this was going to happen, and keep an eagle eye on the remaining playthru. I obviously didn't find this necessary with a balance of over $700. I will be really angry though if I am not able to get the $50 from this (negating my biggest RTG win in a LONG time.....already dwindled to 50) And naturally I would not be inclined to give them my business.

What are your thoughts? Do I have a case here? Or am I being silly for trying to pursue this due to a foolish oversight on my part? Does any other RTG automatically remove excess winnings AS SOON AS playthru is complete?

[coxwel]

sorry but thats pretty normal. some rtgs automatically deduct all above balance from the max cash out if you reac the playthrough on a freeby, some others dont do which i like more as one can see in your case you switched to high bets and then spun your freeby wins away without notice.

always make sure before about this next time, but you can still cash out the 40$ or its not possible?

i made the playthrough of a freeby on luckyslots, cubas sister site, they dont deduct the balance automatically.

congrats on your win, damn it was freeby with max cashout ;-)



cheers


coxwel

[De Beuker]

Its normal I guess, I was playing a 10 free at Intertops Red a while ago, did very well on it, balance was at 150 or so, then suddenly it was 48,75!
I find it very tricky, as Coxwell says, you have to watch your balance all the time or you will spin your winnings away.
I cashed out 45, I really hope you get your winnings.
That would be nothing but fair after such a monsterhit.
Good luck!

[anniemac]

Well, it's a first for me. I play alot of RTG slots at good casinos and freebies at rogues. Have even managed to cashout on free chips but have never had a casino take out the free chip about once I reach playthru. It's always removed when I make a cashout.

File them in the ash can and move on to better.

[Pinababy69]

There's a thread on here somewhere re: Inetbet, and someone who was playing on a no deposit coupon. When they hit the max cashout amount, and the WR had been met, the same thing happened. It was the first I had heard of it being done that way, but I guess this is something that all RTG's will be implementing into their software, if they haven't already.

I've personally never had it happen, as I've only ever cashed out once on a nd bonus at Inet, and that was a manager's bonus, which is done slightly different (I think), as it doesn't even show the playthrough in the cashier. But I do vaguely remember when redeeming a n/d coupon in the cashier, where it used to say that any excess funds would be removed from your account upon cashout....it now says that any excess funds over the max cashout amount, will be removed upon playthrough being met. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure I've seen that message. Never played at Cuba Club, so I can't comment on their system.

I personally don't have a problem with them doing this...I suspect that it's probably exactly as you've stated...to stop people from building up comp points on "free" money. I do agree though that it would have been nice if some of the operators from RTG would have let their players know of this new "system" being put in place.

EDITED TO ADD LINK: Wanted to add in the link for the thread I was referencing, which was actually about four months ago or so. I would expect that eventually ALL RTG's will use this system, so anyone playing on a n/d bonus with a max cashout, should keep a very close eye on their balances if they are close to meeting WR.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...s-inetbet.html

And a quote by Chayton re: Jackpot Capital and ClubWorld as well....I guess I have seen that message in the cashier, lol:

I'm pretty sure that it's the same at ClubWorld and Jackpot Capital, when you take a free chip bonus, there's a little blurb that says something like "as soon as you meet wagering requirements, all excess funds will be removed..."

[oldtrvlagt]

It happened to me at Inetbet a while back....was spinning and not paying attention and when I looked up I was at $48.75 or something and was really P.O.'d as that was the first time I had noticed this. You really have to watch it when you are close. It was a birthday bonus so I was going for the $50 max cashout. It is a bummer

Sorry..forgot it was me that started that thread! And, if I had clicked on the link Pina had provided I would have known that!

[funeral979]

Thanks for pointing out that link for me Pinababy. I seem to recall reading over that when the thread was active.

Well, going over that other thread, I have to completely agree what Vinyl said. Casinos always saying about playing "in the spirit of the bonus" or however they word it, and with this new 'feature', seems they want you to play the bonus to the EXACT penny, then stop. Wouldn't casinos before consider this bonus abuse? Now it seems this is what they want?? The whole point of these no deposits chips are to try out the software/casino, right? They are certaintly not given to grind thru the wager requirements and then to cash out!!! But the way this worked, this seems to be EXACTLY how they wanted this played!

And is this what is happening now as well with non cashable bonuses? Last time I played and won with a non cashable bonus was a few months ago at Cherry Red, and certaintly the bonus was not removed when WR were met.

And as I mentioned before, I was not trying to build comp points...there was no comp point window....even on their website it says you have to be a VIP to earn comp points.

FWIW, in their rules section pertaining to free chips, it simply says "excess winnings will be removed" I wouldn't have thought that meant at the moment WR were met. Just assumed it would be taken out upon cashout, the way its been done in this industry for the past decade.

[coxwel]

surely most times the balance gets deducted after requesting cashout.

if a casino gives you a nd bonus with a 50 max cashout, this is such a limited amount so after you reached playthrough you really deserved it and a freeby cant be abused because mostly the rules are crystal clear. so a good casino will give you a freeby with a real chance of beeing able to cash out, if i get the intention of casinos giving you play money (99*wr, etc..) just dont take it.


there are quiet more complicated scenarios on freebies, fe the casinocubed discussion some time ago, this was a hassle at first

just for luckyslots cubas sister site: if you losse a depsoit there you get a freeby of the amount of the deposit (also limited) with a 20 wr and bonus is cashable but the max cashout is 2times the freeby amount so in my case it was also 2*25=50. as i met the playthrough i had about 170$ in my account, i requested 50 for cashout and the rest was deducted manually after the withdrawal was approved. i should have created some comps but i didnt as i cant see hitting big and then not beeing able to cashout, hurts too much so i let them deduct it. but anyway its a nice promo of them and all i can say they paid quite fast and cs was nice and professional too.
maybe ill go for their 400% 2nd depsoit also..

i would really recommend you to switch from cuba to luckyslots as its same operator but luckyslots always has just 20wr also on 400% bonusses and they are all cashable! in cuba all this in not the case


so you managed a withdrawal now or talked to their cs about your regard?



cheers

coxwel

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for pointing out that link for me Pinababy. I seem to recall reading over that when the thread was active.

Well, going over that other thread, I have to completely agree what Vinyl said. Casinos always saying about playing "in the spirit of the bonus" or however they word it, and with this new 'feature', seems they want you to play the bonus to the EXACT penny, then stop. Wouldn't casinos before consider this bonus abuse? Now it seems this is what they want?? The whole point of these no deposits chips are to try out the software/casino, right? They are certaintly not given to grind thru the wager requirements and then to cash out!!! But the way this worked, this seems to be EXACTLY how they wanted this played!

And is this what is happening now as well with non cashable bonuses? Last time I played and won with a non cashable bonus was a few months ago at Cherry Red, and certaintly the bonus was not removed when WR were met.

And as I mentioned before, I was not trying to build comp points...there was no comp point window....even on their website it says you have to be a VIP to earn comp points.

FWIW, in their rules section pertaining to free chips, it simply says "excess winnings will be removed" I wouldn't have thought that meant at the moment WR were met. Just assumed it would be taken out upon cashout, the way its been done in this industry for the past decade.

Maybe there is a more sinister reason. For one, players ARE NEVER TOLD. We only discovered this RTG feature when it was the subject of a thread. 99% of the time, it is IMPOSSIBLE to play to the exact point, because you remaining playthrough is NOT showing until you exit the game and check. Although experienced players will now be wary of this, they WILL of course be doing EXACTLY what used to be called "bonus abuse". These players however, will be in the minority, even though the casino will have no case for accusing these players now of "bonus abuse" since they are only doing what MUST be done to play DOWN to the max cashout.

The "sinister intent" is for the majority of recreational players, some of whom will win, and WILL play "in the spirit of the bonus" and will freely "try out the games" so long as they see their balance is over the max cashout. They are doing EXACTLY what these free chips were designed for, and they get SCREWED for doing so now. What follows, as illustrated in this case, is that the player sees their balance fall BELOW the max cashout, maybe even to zero if they were not watching the BALANCE each spin. Most will probably then try to edge back up to the max cashout, and lose the lot in trying, whereas they SHOULD have been able to have a LOT more fun "trying out the games", and should also have been able to cash out the max amount, since they had fully met the criteria.
One possible advantage to the casino of doing it this way is to STOP the player continuing to have more fun from the free chip, and PUSH them into making that first deposit of their own money. If they were allowed to just keep on playing the free chip, it might delay for days, or even weeks, that crucial first deposit. On the other hand, given that only a nominal amount can ever be cashed in, however many days it can be played on, the player is far more likely to feel the games are "loose" if they have played for what seems an age on a tiny free chip, and given this feeling, surely they are far more likely to try again with their own money, rather than failing to manage to cash out the max because they were "cheated", never managing to work their way the few dollars back up, and leaving the software feeling thoroughly cheated, and vowing never to play with their own money.
In this way, the casino stands to alienate that proportion of players who manage to get their free chip past the max cashout, and meet WR. THose that merely lose their free chip experience none of this, so are neither more, nor less, likely to play casinos with, and without, this in-play balance confiscation system. The NETT result is therefore ALWAYS a REDUCTION of contented "leads" generated by the freechip offer.

It PROVES that all along it was complete BULLSHIT about these free chips being offered "in the spirit of" anything, nor indeed were they to allow players to "try before buying". The intent was to lure them to deposit their own money, and DELIBERATELY MAKE IT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE to win from the free chip AND actually get to KEEP it.

In most cases, these free chips are used to poach EXISTING players from one or more of their competitors. These players have ALREADY "tried the software", because they have been playing competitor casinos, yet the free chip is STILL being used as a marketing tool, in this MATURE market.

The free chip is MORE likely to get someone to go to the trouble of downloading and installing what could be a 1Gig piece of software on their PC, and THIS is why it is still used. Once a free chip has been played, and lost, little time is lost contacting the player to offer them the welcome bonus, as this is the FIRST time the casino can get it's hands on actual MONEY from the player.
"bonus abuse" tendencies are more easily gained from how the player plays this welcome bonus, and therefore nearly all problems of confiscated winnings are from the new player deposit bonus schemes.

[funeral979]

so you managed a withdrawal now or talked to their cs about your regard?

coxwel

They sent me a reply back thanking me for my "input", and forwarded my situation to management. Been almost 2 days and still waiting for a response.