something wrong with gee gees slot microgaming(bug?)

[funeral979]

because we all love conspiracy theories.....

This seems to be the second time recently that we have seen a technical glitch/software malfunction-whatever you choose to call it at 32Red. Both involved pretty large sums of money (well im assuming, I do believe you said 2000x bet)...

Of course I am referring to the Live Baccarat 'glitch' that initially shorted a player out of 2100eu.

My faith in Microgaming continues its downwards spiral. I don't want to have to sit there and study the screen after every spin to make sure I was paid correctly!

[miranda_x]

it is 20.000x i left out a zero sorry. i was betting 0.10 cents so the prize would be 2000 if i count correctly.
someone from 32red already contacted me and there going to look into it

[vinylweatherman]

I have seen this bug also, but not when it was such an important issue. Whilst these games are not the same as the "normal" slots, there is NO WAY that a HELD SYMBOL should be changed just because the outcome would have produced a win the machine's "pot" was not yet ready to pay. When I had it, I was also done out of a win, but it was only the numbers required for entry to the trail. I held a number, but it was replaced by a bar, and I was offered a nudge that would have brought in other numbers that had my held reel been honoured, would have granted me feature entry.

WHAT MORE PROOF DO PLAYERS NEED that these AWP games are NOT RANDOM!!!!!!

In both cases, it was likely that the result (win, feature entry, etc) was already determined, HOWEVER, there IS a bug that fails to account for instances where players are offered holds, and the machine tries to reach it's predetermined result by voiding the held symbol, and replacing it with the symbol that would have been presented had the hold been refused.
This indicates to me that the hold function in no way alters your chances, and is pure 100% "eye candy" to make the game more interesting.

This bug seems to occur only when nudges are offered.

There is another bug, (has anyone noticed), and this is when you refuse nudges and spin again. IF your nudges are held over in the "nudge bank", they are VOIDED if the next spin produces a new set of nudges. You might "bank" 4 nudges, but see these vanish to be replaced by a lower number of nudges on the next spin.

The "real thing" (Fruit Machinhes in the "real world") are also peppered with bugs of this type, long time players get to know which machines have which "bugs".

In the online MGS case, I do NOT believe these bugs affect the overall RTP of the games, since wins are NOT RANDOM, but determined by a combination of what the machine has taken in, and a random "injection" by MGS software. This means that sometimes these games will pay out far more than they have taken in (see my 32Red massive win streak), and at others they will appear to return around 50% over an extended period.

MGS really should fix the above bugs though, since they look like the software is cheating, and given that a HELD reel is changed, the evidence is pretty damning. This case represents the most extreme, where the 2000x jackpot SHOULD have been paid had the hold on reel one been honoured, and this event has made it so very obvious that there was, in fact, ZERO chance of the JP being awarded on that spin (because the game's "pot" was not "full" enough at the time).

It should be relatively easy to recreate a sequence of screenshots to demonstrate this bug, because it happens when nudges are offered on the spin after holds are offered, (or the spin after a "nudges held" is offered). Demonstrating it denying a win that should have been awarded is harder, since this does not happen most of the times this bug is seen, which is probably why it has taken this long to see it reported here.

[miranda_x]

wow , i couldn't explain it better myself, it happened right as vinyl said!!!!!!. the symbol on the holded reel changed into a bar just like it happened to him but in his case with not so much at stake

[miranda_x]

i understand it totally now, the bar that apearred on the holded reel was the symbol that i would have got if i was not holding the reel, but since i was holding it it shouldn't have changed into a bar but should have stayed a discoball but yet it did change!

[vinylweatherman]

i understand it totally now, the bar that apearred on the holded reel was the symbol that i would have got if i was not holding the reel, but since i was holding it it shouldn't have changed into a bar but should have stayed a discoball but yet it did change!

Well, the non random nature of these games is well and truly busted now
I can't see how MGS can say the outcome of each spin "is random, and not dependent on any previous outcomes......".

I would hope MGS would see how serious this presentation bug is, because it will very quickly damage trust in the integrity of the software.

Players could start wondering about the other slots, where this kind of "cheat", if present, would NEVER be revealed since holds and nudges (which might reveal it) are not featured.

There are already players who see "cycles" in the other slots, where it appears that dynamic weighting is applied to produce cycles of "feast & famine" when it comes to scatter triggered bonus rounds.
It is easy to interpret these cycles as manufactured, rather than random, and casinos do NOT help their case by "bonus banning" players (like myself) who have won big ON SLOTS by increasing stakes "into the upswing" of these "cycles" that don't exist

[miranda_x]

well in my opinion since it now is clear that those awp slots are not random and 32red is advertising itself as a casino with having fair slots that pay out random they should remove the awp slots from their software.

[Setag]

they can't get rid of the awps from 32red theyre my fav!

can someone explain to me how they are not random.

[vinylweatherman]

they can't get rid of the awps from 32red theyre my fav!

can someone explain to me how they are not random.

Have you never played a Fruit Machine, and maybe got the "Hi Lo" with numbers 1 to 12? If so, do the results from going Hi or Lo from any number look as though they are "fair" (e.g. the number was selected randomly, and you had a chance of winning equivalent to the natural odds of selecting a single number from a "pack" of 12).

Most regular players know that these Fruit Machines will "block" larger wins until they have taken in enough since the previous large payout to bring the RTP back within a pre-set target range. One rather obvious sign of this is getting a number such as "2", and going Hi, only to get "1" - and this always seeming to happen to "block" the advance to a far larger win, and further happening a good deal more often than the natural odds of selecting "1" from a "pack" of 12.

The AWP games within the MGS suite are pretty good reproductions of Fruit Machines. There are many patterns, and some are just so very obvious that it is clear the games are not random. Take Treasure Ireland, on the feature trail. If you have an extra life, and are near to the "block" and land on "?", you will ONLY throw the number needed to advance to the other "?". This can result in a cycle of 6,8,6,8,6,8...... etc, with each bonus being a non-advancement one, such as "eliminate", "continue/yes". The sequences of 6,8,6,8.... are very noticeably non-random, and it is clear you are trapped in a piece of "eye candy" whose only purpose is to make you think an extra life has any real value. Once the extra life has been lost on "?", you will find the cycle of 6,8,6,8.... immediately broken, and you will be allowed to advance to the current "block", which represents how much the game is willing to pay.

The errors in Gee Gees are BECAUSE the game is NOT a random slot at all, and runs to pre-determined max win which increases as the game takes in more and more money. When the discoball was held, and the next spin was awarded nudges, it was NOT intended that the jackpot be paid on that spin, however, instead of doing what a proper Fruit Machine would have done, which would be to award one less nudge than was needed, it awarded enough to bring down BOTH because the error failed to carry the held reel over to what was probably a different routine in the software, and this routine then replaced the held discoball with the symbol that was intended to be offered, which would have given the player a "near miss" with 2 discoballs to nudge down, perhaps in the hope of getting a hold, and have a chance of receiving the third on the next spin.

This case should be a significant embarrassment to MGS, but I see no real concern from operators, although it is early days yet.

Perhaps the only way to make MGS take this seriously is to make a specimen complaint through proper channels, asking for the spins to be formally audited, and an explanation given as to why you were not paid out for 3 discoballs. Once the error is made "formal" in this respect, MGS will HAVE to take it seriously and fix it.

First, make a FORMAL complaint to the casino, and if no luck, to a dispute resolution service or the gaming regulator.

Since this was at 32Red, it should be enough to make a formal complaint to them, and also raise your concerns with one of the top people, who happen to be active members of this forum. Pat Harrison (operations manager) and Ed Ware (CEO). The fact that there is no history is a concern in itself, this history MUST be found (it is an eCogra requirement for play history to be kept, and made available - particularly in cases such as this). I believe 32Red recently decided to go for eCogra certification. If it is an onerous task to extract the play history, it is the fault of MGS, rather than 32Red, and means the AWP part of their software does not adhere properly to requirements.
Once a play history is found, WHAT happened should be pretty obvious, although WHY may not be.

Since this is a common enough error, it should be possible to recreate a sequence where a held reel is swapped out in the spin, although it is unlikely to be a denial of a large win. A sequence of screenshots, or better still a video, can be presented as evidence of there being this bug.

I play the AWP games a great deal, and I do NOT want to see them go, but players DO need to be given an HONEST description of what these games really are, since many non-Brits have no real understanding of non-random UK style AWP games, (other than that they are "rigged", something more associated with rogue software).

Despite my extensive play on these AWP games, I have seen this particular error (held reel swapped for BAR next spin) ONCE. This may be because I know how these games work, and rarely bother with "hold" unless I am GUARANTEED a win by holding reels for the next spin, or I have 2 Jackpot symbols (however, I have NEVER had the third come in). Another possibility is that this error crept in recently, and I am going to see more of it this month.

[miranda_x]

in the update of the case 32red send me a mail with a file attached but i couldn't open it since it was excel and i coulnd't open it with excel reader so i am waiting now for them to send me the file in another format.