RTG still rocks!

[chuchu59]

Some meaning can be drawn from the complaints. First, with a string of losses coupled with limited playtime, players can vent out of frustration and they could feel much better after doing that. Second, with such a large number of moans and groans, there is bound to be negative publicity on the slot payouts and this is not something the operators want to see. If they are in for the long haul perhaps they might loosen their slots (say from 94% to 97%) so that they can survive the onslaught.

The software providers are smart enough to know that there will not be solid proof against them altering the payouts although I am not suggesting that they are actually doing this. However, there are many well respected members who are veterans with RTG slots that are making these complaints. I am pretty sure that most of us have been losing overall but these have been rather painless with a mix of wins and losses although the latter occurs with more frequency. However, they see a change where the mix is tilted heavily in favour of the losses. We could blame 'bad luck' but with reports of 60%-70% RTP occurring repeatedly it is just normal that some of us would take a cynical view of what is happening. We cannot say for certain that the casinos or rather the software is cheating but maybe it's time to sit up and take notice. Just my 2c.

[jetset]

Thanks Gammblex.



So the OP is the webmaster of www tunicaonlinecasino.com ? I went and had a look and it is certainly RTG software. Maybe puts a new slant on things, yes?

That, and the fact that the profile has since been edited, suggests to me, too that there may be a degree of bias in TOC's responses.

But what an interesting thread! The preparedness of almost every poster to consider opinions other than their own with courtesy and tolerance shows why Casinomeister.com is such a valuable location for discussion and debate.

And seeing John Steed back in great form is a true pleasure - nice to see you around again, JS - hope we see more of your posts!

Finally, the multiple nominations for best post perhaps illustrates the value members find in taking a fresh look at previous but always interesting and useful issues and perspectives.

[TOC]

I edited my profile because everyone was posting the url within this thread. Not that I mind or have anything to hide, I just don't spam message boards so let's make this clear. So that everyone understands the reason I started this thread was because of all the gloom and doom relating to RTG being posted. I agree everyone has a right to gripe and post concerns and me as a player myself too thought I could show some good wins. I was never promoting my website for clicks and didn't even think about my profile being broadcast over the net. The number I showed was my personal play and thought maybe some other winners would come forward. It appears that most of you are slot players, I play very little slots and mostly blackjack for the ones that asked. I mix it up low bets up to the max.

No agenda here folks, was posting as a player. My mistake was the profile, sorry because I don't spam. Actually I purchase ad space and have from a few members on this site. Best of luck to everyone, hope it turns around for ya!

[Nifty29]

Great thread.

I play very little slots and mostly blackjack for the ones that asked.

The main issue raised at CM about RTG software is the slots payout - and you indicate here that the wins you had were NOT from slot play, so it doesnt really alleviate any concerns for slot players at all. Almost every "I cant win at RTG" thread is about people not being able to win at RTG SLOTS.

Sure, you can win at BJ, but it has a much higher % return and is based on 100% random cards being dealt (unless they are NOT random in which case it is plain cheating, and I dont see a BJ player like yourself playing anywhere knowing it was rigged). Slots are a different animal and, as has been stated, can be adjusted to produce different payouts at the whim of the operator.

Slot players should take TOC's posted results with a grain of salt, and I think it would have been more forthcoming of the OP to say that he wasnt playing slots.

[deucebag]

Unlike table games and video poker players, RTG slots players are playing a game with an unknown and unverifiable payout. We know that the payout can be adjusted at the whim of the operator (casino). The casinos are asking for a lot of trust from players with this gaming offer, but they provide ZERO evidence to the players as to what the game they are playing is actually paying out over time.

There is only way to solve this problem of trust:

1) publish the payback percentage on the paytable (like Rival and Wagerworks do)

and

2) give the players a possibility of having that payback% verified, either by having it audited by a third party, or by providing the reel layouts so that the payouts can be verified by anyone with enough mathematical knowledge. We have seen the latter done on Microgaming slots (obviously it would not work if the reels are weighted).

[Pinababy69]

I had a nice long post typed out...but why bother? Just more of the same. We could round and round on the merry go round for days.

To use Rob's analogy, if you want to eat dozens of hot dogs, even knowing full well that they will make you sick (heartburn), then stuff yourself til you can't eat anymore. But if you complain about the heartburn afterwards, then I'm sorry...you don't have the common sense you were born with. How many times would you continue to stick your hand in a fire even though you know you're going to get burned? How many times would you bang your head against a brick wall, even though you know it's going to give you a headache and make your head bleed?

I guess people continue to play at a software they profess to get killed at, for the same reason that players continue to play at Virtual, even with mountains of evidence showing them to be crooks.

So, bitch and moan away about something you can do absolutely zero about (until someone, somehow gets some concrete proof of cheating)...and just continue to ignore real issues that you could do something about, if you were so inclined. Well, you could do something about the casinos you "think" may be cheating, or fiddling with their payouts.....you could stop playing there. Oh, that's right, you like hotdogs....errrr, ummmm.....those casinos.

I'll just sit back and continue to jump in and shower "praise" all over the casinos. God knows I never highlight any of the bad things they do.

[silcnlayc]

silcnlayc
Why are you so bitter? I don't recall doing anything to you.. Calm down, drink a beer or 6

Um, I congratulated you and that makes me bitter?? Geez...I wonder where your mindset is when you can't take an honest WTG on your win, that we find out really isn't on the topic we were talking about in the first place.

Well, you could do something about the casinos you "think" may be cheating, or fiddling with their payouts.....you could stop playing there. Oh, that's right, you like hotdogs....errrr, ummmm.....those casinos.

Now that is an interesting concept...quit playing at the ones that give you heartburn..I wonder why I did not think of it..oh, I forgot...I did quit..and actually had a post saying how happy I have become by doing just what you said to do..and geez..it was done in slow increments with the last group closed last week...I wonder why I didn't think of that! Sheesh!

Musta been those gourmet hotdogs I ran into that made me forget about the hearburns I USED to get..

You might want to try it..it is a stress reliever..tossing out the heartburn and going for the calming, sweet cream ...

.

[jetset]

Great thread.



The main issue raised at CM about RTG software is the slots payout - and you indicate here that the wins you had were NOT from slot play, so it doesnt really alleviate any concerns for slot players at all. Almost every "I cant win at RTG" thread is about people not being able to win at RTG SLOTS.

Sure, you can win at BJ, but it has a much higher % return and is based on 100% random cards being dealt (unless they are NOT random in which case it is plain cheating, and I dont see a BJ player like yourself playing anywhere knowing it was rigged). Slots are a different animal and, as has been stated, can be adjusted to produce different payouts at the whim of the operator.

Slot players should take TOC's posted results with a grain of salt, and I think it would have been more forthcoming of the OP to say that he wasnt playing slots.

Good points imo.

[slotheadlizard]

Um, I congratulated you and that makes me bitter?? Geez...I wonder where your mindset is when you can't take an honest WTG on your win, that we find out really isn't on the topic we were talking about in the first place.

Now that is an interesting concept...quit playing at the ones that give you heartburn..I wonder why I did not think of it..oh, I forgot...I did quit..and actually had a post saying how happy I have become by doing just what you said to do..and geez..it was done in slow increments with the last group closed last week...I wonder why I didn't think of that! Sheesh!

Musta been those gourmet hotdogs I ran into that made me forget about the hearburns I USED to get..

You might want to try it..it is a stress reliever..tossing out the heartburn and going for the calming, sweet cream ...

.

For some reason after Pina dissected my reply to the OP, the thread seems to have evolved into many things. A lot of it has nothing to do with my reply, but its all relevant.

At first glance it looks as if I was attacking someone who had posted a win on RTG. That was certainly not my intention. My point was this, TOC had primarily been on two other threads refuting opinions and stating his own as facts, and quite rudely I may add. One, they posted their RTG wins on a thread about 3Dice. The thread was not in fact about losing, but simply inquiring as to whether or not anyone was winning at 3Dice. The OP never said they would continue playing at a casino that they were losing at, quite the opposite. They were off to EBay where their money was better utilized.

RTG was mentioned along with other brands as a place where that particular poster was not lucky. Then TOC places their stats on there with a "Sorry". OK, fine. Then Silc makes a thread that talks about which casinos are playing fair, and to remember that when the laws are changed. It was a topic about how it is not too late to change how the slots are playing before the new laws change. Once again TOC appears with a series of zzzzs, and ask what our problem is for complaining!

Not once did Silc suggest you keep laying at these casinos. I had been following some of Silcs post, and have always gathered that after losing on the slots they have deleted all but a couple in fun mode. A suggestion in which I followed, expect the two I liked.

It is important to mention that I was not complaining about RTG, I have not said or thought really that the slots were rigged. I have even debated to the contrary. I may have commented on threads with a similar experience, or chimed in on a bitch and moan session, but have long since learned that this is gambling. If I am not happy with a casino, I delete it. I may reinstall at a later date, but not complain about a casino I continue to patronize.

I have done pretty well at a couple of casinos and said as much, even posting their screenies. If I played money back , that's my fault, and I own that. I guess its just a little upsetting that my post was made out to be a RTG flogging, and rigged conspiracy rebuttal. When I had never said either. I just wanted to let the OP know I'm happy for the win on RTG, but that they don't have to post their stats on threads that they don't agree with, in a nice way.

Now I guess the whole thing is sort of null in my opinion. I did not weigh this conclusion on the URL thing- I just recently found out what a webmaster was. It had nothing to do with their win as far as I'm concerned. What does concern me is the fact that they won on BJ, when I was under the impression that they were injecting his slot play wins into the discussions about losses on SLOTS.
A win is a win, but I thought this was all about slots!

[johnsteed]

***

So, bitch and moan away about something you can do absolutely zero about (until someone, somehow gets some concrete proof of cheating)...and just continue to ignore real issues that you could do something about, if you were so inclined. Well, you could do something about the casinos you "think" may be cheating, or fiddling with their payouts.....you could stop playing there. Oh, that's right, you like hotdogs....errrr, ummmm.....those casinos.

And I almost forgot...

For some reason after Pina dissected my reply to the OP, the thread seems to have evolved into many things. A lot of it has nothing to do with my reply, but its all relevant.

I have two of my favorite excerpts from baseball's BEST writer (with... I suppose Michael Lewis), Bill James.


About Don Baylor:


That which defines Don Baylor, I think, is the image of strength. He projects an image of great strength, great determination and force of will; as Fred White used to say, "He just looks like an RBI standing up there." But personally, I find him almost intolerable, because, to me, he seems to be engaged in a perpetual charade designed to project the image of great strength. As a manager, he seems to be using this image of great strength, great conviction in the rectitude of his actions, as a substitute for having any reason for what he is doing. I'm not suggesting that you should react to him that way; that's just me.


- The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract by Bill James



About Dick Allen:


On a sports team, the best and most talented players are the leaders, for good or bad, because they're the people who everybody else pays attention to. Allen had so much talent that he was always the focus of attention, and in addition to that he was a manipulator of extraordinary skill. He could, and can, charm a rabbit out of its whiskers. And having convinced his teammates A, B, and C that he was a great guy who had just been misunderstood, he would immediately begin to convince them that teammate D was a racist, teammate E didn't want to win, the press was out to get them all and the manager was an idiot for playing teammate X, rather that teammate C. Every team that he played for eventually degenerated into warring camps of pro-Dick Allen and anti-Dick Allen factions.


In 1976, when the Phillies won the division with Allen at the end of his career, Allen ripped management and threatened not to play in the playoffs because the Phillies wouldn't make a spot on the World Series roster for one of his teammates. The Phillies held two separate victory celebrations, the pro-Allen faction locking themselves in the trainer's room to hold their own party.


"Had Dick Allen played fifty years ago," Bob Carroll, making Dick Allen's case for the HOF, "he might be lauded today as a shining example of American independence. Instead, his moodiness, self-absorption, and free-and-easy approach to baseball make him anathema to many." Well, pardon me, but was there an era in baseball history where moodiness, self-absorption and a casual approach to the game were considered desirable qualities in a ballplayer? Was there a time in baseball history when a player could not show up at the ballpark once in a while without anybody making an issue out of it?


- Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? by Bill James



Steed


***