What the hell 3dice

[silcnlayc]

chuchu, I was reflecting on "sessions" one plays at the same casino, not hands. Sorry for the confusion. There is always a run of bad I was saying, when is the run of good going to happen , and I do not mean 1 or 2 winning sessions vs 20-30 losing ones..why is it never the other way around if online casinos are fair? They should happen too IMO!

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[AussieGambler21]

chuchu, I was reflecting on "sessions" one plays at the same casino, not hands. Sorry for the confusion. There is always a run of bad I was saying, when is the run of good going to happen , and I do not mean 1 or 2 winning sessions vs 20-30 losing ones..why is it never the other way around if online casinos are fair? They should happen too IMO!

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I think everyone is forgetting the simple fact that we are meant to lose!We are meant to have more losing sessions then winning sessions.Of course it all depends on what game you are playing but i mean seriously how do you think casinos make their money and are able to offer promotions and generally keep us entertained.They are a business after all.

The only time i play at online casino and expect to have more winning sessions then loosing sessions is when i play in that casino poker client (i like hold-em and omaha) but we all know that even then the casino is making a profit of us.

[AussieGambler21]

Also i think putting doubt in the minds of players (especially new players) about the legitimacy of a certain online casino without proof is just not called for.

[Rusty]

To be fair we can expect slightly longer losing streaks and for them to occur slightly more often but it varies according to the house edge of the game we are playing.
I am certain though it is not just our perception that Casino software gives streakier results than what we would expect and some are worse than others again depending on the game played.

If everyones returns were at the level of theoretical return of the games they played over a good period of time I could just put it down to a unexplained side effect of the RNG's post processing except that slot play proves that there is something more going on and my guess would be it has something to do with the way the algorithm for a particular game interprets the RNG results.

It is a very complex area but basically to know if a game is truly fair you have to know the RNG source used is sufficient, that the protection of the system does not effect the randomness in any way and that the algorithms that convert the data into game results do not intentionally or unintentionally bias results.
Since we have to rely on boffins, 3rd party testing and Casinos to tell us that all is well with the above then we need to decide if there is a weak link in any of this.
That is a very long winded way of saying you either trust the software or you don't but the former does require a leap of faith while the latter should be based on your results alone.

Play, enjoy but be vigilant and take nothing on trust.

[CasinoKidd]

I will try to be brief. Everyone is quick to take shots at 3Dice and payouts, and I know their payout can piss me off quite badly, but to bash the casino so easily I just don't get it.

You choose to play there. You choose to deposit. You choose to play certain games. You choose to deposit again. You choose to try again. You choose to try yet again. And again. You see a pattern here? If you don't like the casino payouts, you need to not play there.

The safest way to double your money is to fold it over once and put it in your pocket. ~Kin Hubbard

I havent deposited in 2 weeks. Try it. Feels good.

[Pinababy69]

I havent deposited in 2 weeks. Try it. Feels good.

I agree CK. I went from April 25th to May 27th without making a single deposit anywhere. Partially necessity (bathroom reno) and partially choice. I tell you, I am a micro depositor....like $10 or $15 at 3Dice or Inetbet. And $20 at 32Red. You would be amazed how much you actually save by cutting off deposits completely, even small ones. I got my bathroom paid off, and I don't make alot of money.

Besides the money, you are right. It felt good. I finally made a few small deposits last Wednesday night...and playtime was still pretty much shit everywhere. So again, nothing until this morning, when I made a minimal $20 deposit at 32Red. You know.....I played for about three hours this morning, and got up to about $75. I left it for the day, then played early this evening for probably another two hours or so. Ended up zeroing out, and couldn't hit that $100 mark....but five hours entertainment on $20 is pretty good to me. Mind you, my largest bet was 50 cents...most were 18 cents to 25 cents.

I agree that it's no fun when your money just disappears in the blink of an eye. It happens to me too. But CK's advice is sound....take a break. You'd be surprised how good it does feel, and how much more you enjoy the play when you do decide to play again.

[thelawnet]

Several people complaining about VP autoplay, anyone could post an actual example where the autoplay makes a non-optimal choice? The programming for autoplay on VP isn't that complicated so until someone posts numbers it's a lot easier to believe that the players are wrong.

I agree with you. I tried a few dozen hands on JoB and DW just now and it played 100% correctly.

[Nifty29]

Great posts Pina and CasinoKidd

I can personally recommend this strategy to anyone who isnt enjoying their play any more. You will also bet differently when you return (more sensible I think) and it will definitely save you money and stress.

Its also good to be able to get back in touch with the offline world - its so easy to live your life online sometimes but it is seldom beneficial in the long run.

I agree CK. I went from April 25th to May 27th without making a single deposit anywhere. Partially necessity (bathroom reno) and partially choice. I tell you, I am a micro depositor....like $10 or $15 at 3Dice or Inetbet. And $20 at 32Red. You would be amazed how much you actually save by cutting off deposits completely, even small ones. I got my bathroom paid off, and I don't make alot of money.

Besides the money, you are right. It felt good. I finally made a few small deposits last Wednesday night...and playtime was still pretty much shit everywhere. So again, nothing until this morning, when I made a minimal $20 deposit at 32Red. You know.....I played for about three hours this morning, and got up to about $75. I left it for the day, then played early this evening for probably another two hours or so. Ended up zeroing out, and couldn't hit that $100 mark....but five hours entertainment on $20 is pretty good to me. Mind you, my largest bet was 50 cents...most were 18 cents to 25 cents.

I agree that it's no fun when your money just disappears in the blink of an eye. It happens to me too. But CK's advice is sound....take a break. You'd be surprised how good it does feel, and how much more you enjoy the play when you do decide to play again.

[RobWin]

Hi Swede,

First off, I appreciate that a bad run is less fun than a good one. I can understand the beneficial effects of venting, and I know for sure that letting those emotions out is a lot better than stacking them up. Know that our staff is trained to be as supportive as possible -within reason - and that they are always there for you if you need them.

I also know however that strong emotions tend to get in the way of analytical thinking, and might for example lead a mathematician to look at the numbers from a slightly skewed point of view. Even the greatest minds suffer this problem and was it not Einstein who later on admitted that the cosmological constant he added to the original relativity theory was the biggest mistake he ever made - driven by his emotional inability to accept the consequences of it not being there.

I don't know whether or not statistics is your particular math specialty - but even if it isn't I'm sure you are aware of the basic rules when dealing with sampled data. One of the basic rules - and the one that you seem to have overlooked - is that the statisticus cannot choose his samples - you can take all the data - or you can take random samples - but you cant pick a specific run and draw your conclusions on that if you have more complete data available. This clearly is tainting the results and driven by the urge to find a 'cosmological constant' that simply isn't there.

It would be easy for me to pick runs from your history that are equally long and in the opposite end of the result spectrum. I wont do that tho - but I would be happy to post your lifetime stats on the games you mention (just % - not amounts) and give the users of this forum the information they need to form a correct opinion. With the information you have provided all that can be mathematically deducted is that you had a single bad run.

If you take yourself serious as a mathematician, and if you respect this form for its open nature then I'm sure you'll have no problems with me posting that information ?

Kindest Regards,

Enzo

Good post Rusty, thank you. And here's the true problem with 3dice's card games:

Like someone said earlier in this thread: "duh, you need a sample size larger than or equal to the budget deficit, duh. Completely moot as neither of us will live 60,000 years to play enough hands to get a 100% fair outcome. When casinos or dullards cite that excuse, you know you're being taken for a ride. The point is, when 9/10 or your sessions are statistical anomalies, always in the casinos favor, the outcome of the game is skewed. It does not matter if it's intentional or not, you will lose your money, period.

If you can't wrap your head around this, consider the following:

I know what the expected return in Pai Gow is, someone tried to be a wise-ass about it but clearly didn't quite get it. If you play a fair Pai Gow game, your chances of losing(this means whatever bet you placed on the felt gets removed = you lost both up and down) more than two out of every three hands over a period of months and years, you'd be a fool not to realize you're being taken.

Again, when streaks like this never occurs in your favor, the game is manupulated. Or in other words, just as random as the color of the coil I leave behind in the morning.

In conclusion, I can only agree that sidebets sucks. Sadly, my pleistocene ancestor never played them so we'll never accumulate a big enough sample size to really know, will we.

Also, I've given up trying to retrieve payout numbers from 3dice. They are always manipulated in some way, suggesting I'm even stevens lifetime. I will strongly consider closing my account there and recommend everyone I know to do the same.

So, from Enzo's only post here and Swede's last post from 3 days ago...where does this issue stand now??

[RobWin]

Here's some food for thought:

Can you even get a "true" blackjack game online?

The reason I ask is that even though the slots "casinos" here in PA offer electronic blackjack, it's not as if you're getting a true blackjack game with the appropriate expected HA, depending on the decks/rules of the game. They are setup to pay out just the same as regular slot machine, with about the same payout %....and we're talking about 90-91% as apposed to the 98+% you'd expect from a "real" blackjack game..It'd be interesting to see the overall payout report for not only 3dice's blackjack, but for other software, as well. For online casinos to group all table games in together and publish an overall payout % is just....well, you decide. I'd love for online casinos to break it down to each individual table game...

Win, did you ever get your BJ play stats from 3Dice that you had been requesting for some time?? I don't recall you ever mentioning it again...