Suspicions - RTG software upgrade

[takethemoney]

A couple nights ago I logged into one of my accredited casino accounts. For the first time in two months it upgraded the version of the lobby. After that most of my slots which I had already downloaded needed to be redownloaded. Next, the slots played like crap. In a few hundred dollars at a dollar or less per spin, I only managed to hit 3 feature out of 6 different slots I played. As if they haven't been tight enough lately, it seems like they have become tighter yet again. Anyone else noticing this? WTF!!!

They are taking the fun right out of it. I also noticed the last two days that the numbers on the progressives are just barely moving, which tells me people are abstaining from playing them like they used to. So with decreased play, I wonder if they are just trying to fleece the players who are playing?

What software seems to deal a fairer game where people from the USA can still play?

 

[silcnlayc]

They are taking the fun right out of it. I also noticed the last two days that the numbers on the progressives are just barely moving, which tells me people are abstaining from playing them like they used to. So with decreased play, I wonder if they are just trying to fleece the players who are playing?

I also have a thread running on this. I feel that strange things are definitely happening with the RTG's and it isn't to the players benefit either!

.

 

[deltoid]

So don't play at RTG, there are options.

I personally trust RTG software (along with MG, and Playtech) to be fair. Changes to the casino client wouldn't impact the fairness of the game, they probably just fixed bugs with graphics or sound (hopefully including the VP bug where the first card kinda shifts off to the right and then stays there. It's a minor cosmetic thing but it doesn't look good).

 

[cynthial]

If that is indeed the case there must be a hell of a lot of bugs then since they have been updating them almost daily for ages.

 

[winbig]

So don't play at RTG, there are options.

Speak for yourself. You're in Canada, and can play (for the most part) where you wish.

If you'll notice, the OP is from America, and doesn't have that luxury.

Even so, it doesn't make things right, and if RTG did make a drastic (unethical) change such as this, I hope it's proven, and then they're drug out into the street and shot for it.

 

[chuchu59]

So don't play at RTG, there are options.

I personally trust RTG software (along with MG, and Playtech) to be fair. Changes to the casino client wouldn't impact the fairness of the game, they probably just fixed bugs with graphics or sound (hopefully including the VP bug where the first card kinda shifts off to the right and then stays there. It's a minor cosmetic thing but it doesn't look good).

While I occasionally rant about the poor payout at RTG slots, at times they pay out really well and I do believe in the fairness of the games. However, what really bothers me is that they consistently upgrade their games but things like the scatters at Cleopatra's Gold are never fixed. These are various obvious bugs and they should be rectified in the first instance. If players could see for themselves what the upgrades had really fixed they would have no cause for complaint. As it stands now upgrades are upgrades and nothing obvious is being fixed. So our next thoughts would be on whether it is the games that are being fixed.

 

[takethemoney]

While I occasionally rant about the poor payout at RTG slots, at times they pay out really well and I do believe in the fairness of the games. However, what really bothers me is that they consistently upgrade their games but things like the scatters at Cleopatra's Gold are never fixed. These are various obvious bugs and they should be rectified in the first instance. If players could see for themselves what the upgrades had really fixed they would have no cause for complaint. As it stands now upgrades are upgrades and nothing obvious is being fixed. So our next thoughts would be on whether it is the games that are being fixed.

I've played RTGs for many years. I've only had reason to complain about the way they play for the last couple months. Sure they can have hot streaks, but that inevitable take down mode always kicks in, more obvious to me lately than ever. Also I know they are not hitting features near as often. I've also noticed that when a game is cold, seems like it's casino wide, not just that particular slot. Unless you hit a progressive, seems like you are just buying lottery tickets....and damn expensive ones at that.

Summing up the way I feel with the following song:

 

[sparkles]

I absolutely agree

when you eventually get the bonus with $1 bet, and get $3 or $4, how can you help but wonder, I think they have become high varience, theres some good hits in there but they seem to be very few and far between, someone mentioned they got over $1000 on a 40 cent bet on raindance, and theres been quite a few $100+ on 40 cents in the screenies, that convinces me more, I have always felt the new additions were that way, and a handful of the others, my view is they are changing the rest to be the same.

As I said just my view and I could be completely wrong, but I remember the days you got a feature on $1 and you knew yourd get something over $10

 

[AussieGambler21]

I think the problem is everyone remembers their losses more then their wins (except big wins obviously). I have played pokies at the pub or club and have went months without wins of more then $200 (even $100) however you hardly ever see people start questioning the legitimacy of the operator (be it casino, pub or club) however when it comes to lengthy online loosing streaks it all of a sudden is a big conspiracy that the software providers are cheating.Also in reference to table games just the fact that you can play significantly more hands per hour means you are going to be more prone to what "seems" like longer hot and cold streaks even only after a 2 - 3 hour session.

What i am trying to say is i don't think anyone should automatically jump to conclusions or suggest online casinos are software tampering unless you have solid proof.I admit that there have been cases of this happening but they are the exception not the rule.

Regular upgrades happen all the time and i think until proven otherwise even if they do occur most days they are legitimate upgrades.

 

[AussieGambler21]

As I said just my view and I could be completely wrong, but I remember the days you got a feature on $1 and you knew yourd get something over $10

I know of a pokie machine availabe in australia which was at one of my local clubs (think it is called mr woo or something) and i have never ever seen anyone get a feature win over $2 or $3, i even played it a few times and my biggest feature win was 6cents (no kidding).Oh and by the way i was the one who played that rain dance machine.

 

[sparkles]

The way I feel

is not something Ive concluded today, I have felt this is a gradual thing for sometime, as I said completely my view, but wether the changes have been gradual or not, there have been changes. Wether it be green light with it so called error that was claimed when it was changed, they are changes none the less.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I dunno. Try playing on Fridays between 3 AM and 7 AM only when it is raining. No desktops, only laptops!! Oh yeah, be sure your cell phone is on the charger.............Guess I will hire a couple of full time bodyguards.

Your turn and I'll keep doubling down on all pairs of dueces and Aces

 

[AussieGambler21]

I dunno. Try playing on Fridays between 3 AM and 7 AM only when it is raining. No desktops, only laptops!! Oh yeah, be sure your cell phone is on the charger.............Guess I will hire a couple of full time bodyguards.

Your turn and I'll keep doubling down on all pairs of dueces and Aces

LOL i assume you are from the states based on your handle?If so if it is 3 am in the morning where you are, then it is most likely sometime in the afternoon here so i might try playing between those times and see what happens

By the way very nice cashier screenshot

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Actually, I think the Mob ran a tighter ship with more integrity than nevermind .

That said, Casino Player's April 2009 Magazine has a very interesting article by Frank Legato specific to BandM slots but imo it would apply to onlines also that are fair. The title and sub-title of the article really says it all:

"THE SELECTIVE MEMORY OF SLOT PLAYERS"
"Are Slots Tighter Due To The Recession? The Evidence Shows Otherwise"

One excerpt:
"............................................................................................................................................................................................"

"Why, then, are readers reporting tighter machines? It is what John Robison, one of the top slot experts in the business, often calls ""selective memory"". Players remember when they lose--perhaps not more than when they win big, but certainly more than when they break even or win a moderate amount. The fresh memory of a losing session is combined with the news of the casino's economic woes, and an assumption is made that all machines are tighter."

"As I said, logical but wrong--and the empirical evidence backs me up"........."

 

[Jasminebed]

RTG operators have a range for slot playouts they can choose from, to the best of my knowlege, the only software provider that allows this.

When I see an "update" that does not involve the addition of a new game, I too am suspicious that it is not to offer us higher payouts...I would expect that be be announced with banners flying and a big "NEW and IMPROVED" neon sign.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

RTG operators have a range for slot playouts they can choose from, to the best of my knowlege, the only software provider that allows this.

When I see an "update" that does not involve the addition of a new game, I too am suspicious that it is not to offer us higher payouts...I would expect that be be announced with banners flying and a big "NEW and IMPROVED" neon sign.

"NEW and IMPROVED"
Guess I Better Send The New and Improved Docs. CW Wants Before You Know!!

 

[WagerWitch]

Yes but Vegas - How often do you get that?

Cause for me - it's once maybe in 2 years.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nashvegas, no offense meant but you are in a totally different league than 99% of us here. Your one bet is almost like our entire bankroll...so you will definitely see those huge withdrawals from players such as you.

If we, a s low rollers could get 1/10th of that we would be happy but we don't and many times we cannot afford to ride it out in one session. I do remember when a $20-50 deposit lasted for a long time and usually had a withdrawal of triple the deposit and MANY times a HUGE hit like $200-500 on a bonus round.

I have been playing since BEFORE 1996...so I know there have been changes slowly to the payscales...there NEVER used to be less than the bet won on any given bonus round, but now it has become the NORM..
I have stopped playing almost all RTG"s and like I said before, I am getting ready to uninstall the last few. They have become black sucking holes with no return.

The FEW and FAR between wins posted anymore is just a teaser IMO...they no longer play anywhere like they used to and that is NOT selective memory..it is a FACT.

.

 

[heatherad]

I dunno. Try playing on Fridays between 3 AM and 7 AM only when it is raining. No desktops, only laptops!! Oh yeah, be sure your cell phone is on the charger.............Guess I will hire a couple of full time bodyguards.

Your turn and I'll keep doubling down on all pairs of dueces and Aces

Now I know where my deposits disappeared to!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nashvegas, no offense meant but you are in a totally different league than 99% of us here.

I understand and respect your point pursuant to the thread. I certainly play with a high risk of ruin at times but I'm not a party of one. It achieves some big wins and a lot of losses. I have been lucky enough to date to have exceeded expectation (w/o bonus chasing, despite expectations having been misrepresented, and other issues often swept under the rug or ignored) but by no means have I exceeded positive expectation. That is also another issue or set of issues so I will just leave it be other than (and regardless of some of my actions), A BET MADE SHOULD BE A BET PAID, ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY SHOWS ONE'S FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTRACTUAL ASPECT OF A GAMING CONTRACT.

our one bet is almost like our entire bankroll...so you will definitely see those huge withdrawals from players such as you.

Again respectfully understood and relative to one's means and being responsible. But I could be a total faux up to my ear's in debt. Whether the case or not for moi, unfortunately it is the case for some books. A very sad fact!!

If we, a s low rollers could get 1/10th of that we would be happy but we don't and many times we cannot afford to ride it out in one session. I do remember when a $20-50 deposit lasted for a long time and usually had a withdrawal of triple the deposit and MANY times a HUGE hit like $200-500 on a bonus round.

I have been playing since BEFORE 1996...so I know there have been changes slowly to the payscales...there NEVER used to be less than the bet won on any given bonus round, but now it has become the NORM..
I have stopped playing almost all RTG"s and like I said before, I am getting ready to uninstall the last few. They have become black sucking holes with no return.

I used the word "fair" and certainly believe or in a few cases know there are many various online gaming areas per se where fairness is questionable. This does not exclude any software platform and I do not buy the "then don't play", "master of your own domain" gospel assuming one has the means and is responsible. I prefer and continue to believe one has the right to question and at least attempt to understand/determine fair, unfair, why we/some often perceive such a difference in gameplay of online platforms versus BandM's other than the obvious.

Does "then don't play", "master of your own domain", "speak with your wallet" become fair game, npi??? Absolutely, if one is aware of malfeasance,inequity or similiar. Memba that audit that got pulled and it was not Bryan or Enzo that initiated. I spoke with my wallet and eventually zipped (my mouth) it at Peace. Gaming has and always will be a corrupt biz (with lots of good people also) whether regulated or not. Fact, so by no means although I understand the implications of my prior posts, did I mean to imply whether the main issue of this thread may or may not be valid. I really dunno, ftr!!

The FEW and FAR between wins posted anymore is just a teaser IMO...they no longer play anywhere like they used to and that is NOT selective memory..it is a FACT.

I believe as the expert, that "selective memory" clearly plays a role in some of the issues mentioned above, most specifically our perceptions of online gaming fairness and can not be discounted but only a role. That said, afaic, unless blantantly obvious, the software platforms and industry will always have the advantage on gaming fairness. Sample size, chi-squared, standard deviations, binominal distributions, etc. make it virtually, OOPS ,improbable for the player to win (per se) a fairness debate but you do not have to win a debate, know what I mean,lol!?!?. As E J once posted, a sample size of 100 may be large enough to prove malfeasance but somehow it will be a defense where you can not win a debate, big deal if you are satisfied in your own mind (with a reasonable basis).

.

Chow!

 

[silcnlayc]

Chow!

Don't you dare leave!

I used the word "fair" and certainly believe or in a few cases know there are many various online gaming areas per se where fairness is questionable. This does not exclude any software platform and I do not buy the "then don't play", "master of your own domain" gospel assuming one has the means and is responsible. I prefer and continue to believe one has the right to question and at least attempt to understand/determine fair, unfair, why we/some often perceive such a difference in gameplay of online platforms versus BandM's other than the obvious.

Excellently said...this is why I need you people..you all say it so much better than me..and Rusty has been getting really good at my mess and understanding in between my lines!

.