Predatory Terms and Conditions...non-promotional

[Jasminebed]

Well, I don't feel I am up to the task of compiling a complete list...there are hundreds if not thousands of casinos out there.

CM started with a a post here http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ssive-win.html with a partial list of casinos that don't pay in full for progressive wins.

Casinos that require you to pay a monthly fee to maintain an account, dormant fees that are excessive and anything other than the FU..we will change the rules without notice at our discretion, found even at reputable casinos are fair game.

Please quote the offending paragraph and make sure you get the casino name correct.

If we all pitch in as we run across them, perhaps we can begin to assemble such a list.

Please don't include questionable promotions...they change so quickly I think that they would detract from the usefulness of this thread.

And if the casino in question has a rep here, please give them the courtesy of a PM to alert them of a post in this thread that concerns their casino.

Casinos have in the past been responsive to player concerns and changed Terms and Conditions.

I can't stress enough to go back and read the Terms and Conditions (sometimes known as Terms of Use or Terms of Service) at the casinos you deposit with. Every last one I've read has put the onus for players to check these for changes.

[free bet]

I am an affiliate and have had my share of casinos not paying me my revenues, even after I register and loose money, the reports show zero activity...try to pick stock listed companies, they are usually your best bet

[Jasminebed]

Freebet, I appreciate your comments, but I was hoping to create a list of PLAYER issues from terms and conditions.

Affiliate agreements are a whole different ballgame, and I do believe casinos that shortchange their affiliates are questionable when it comes to their integrity with players also.

I do hope you check out each and every casino you promote...but so much can happen in a short time that it is hard to keep up with.

If you stumble across anything untoward in general Terms and Conditions, please post again with details.

[zebedy]

what about wagerworks casino's ive put virgin casino's T&Cs because they are on the accredited list here but i think all wagerworks T&Cs are basically the same re progressive payouts

i mean if certain casino'o get blasted because they pay progressives over a long period shouldnt wagerworks be put into the same catagory,
i know virgin are accredited and a top notch casino but you cant put one without the other

If you win MegaJackpots® then provided all the applicable terms and conditions and all the Website's terms and conditions have been observed, you will be paid the prize money by Wagerworks. Payment will be in 20 equal annual instalments (with no accrual of interest on deferred payments) or if you choose a reduced lump sum amount based on the present value of the 20 annual future payments.

[spearmaster]

what about wagerworks casino's ive put virgin casino's T&Cs because they are on the accredited list here but i think all wagerworks T&Cs are basically the same re progressive payouts

i mean if certain casino'o get put on the rogue list because they pay progressives over a long period shouldnt wagerworks be put into the same catagory,
i know virgin are accredited and a top notch casino but you cant put one without the other

The difference with Wagerworks is that its MegaJackpots are boosted by putting the funds into an annuity, as are all IGT jackpots. So the numbers you see on the jackpot are actual value plus 20 years interest. This is stated very clearly in the paragraph you quoted.

With all other online providers, jackpots are actual value and paid out in their entirety.

[Casinomeister]

No one said anything about a rogue list. I'm just compiling a list of Playtech casinos that include their progressive jackpots within their monthly payment plan. That's all.

[zebedy]

The difference with Wagerworks is that its MegaJackpots are boosted by putting the funds into an annuity, as are all IGT jackpots. So the numbers you see on the jackpot are actual value plus 20 years interest. This is stated very clearly in the paragraph you quoted.

With all other online providers, jackpots are actual value and paid out in their entirety.

i must be blind to be honest i cant see much difference between these terms and the ones from the joyland case,

you can either accept a reduced lump sum as sylvia p did from joyland or choose to get (from a 2 million jackpot, made up number) roughly £8000 a month, the jackpot is still not paid in its entirety.and would take 20 years,


i was also wondering if you did take a reduced sum would the remainder of the funds be put back into the prize pool,
fyi i did pm the virgin rep to see what he says

[spearmaster]

i must be blind to be honest i cant see much difference between these terms and the ones from the joyland case,

you can either accept a reduced lump sum as sylvia p did from joyland or choose to get (from a 2 million jackpot, made up number) roughly £8000 a month, the jackpot is still not paid in its entirety.and would take 20 years,


i was also wondering if you did take a reduced sum would the remainder of the funds be put back into the prize pool,
fyi i did pm the virgin rep to see what he says

The difference is that jackpots other than Wagerworks are complete - in other words, what you see is what you should get. With Wagerworks, their jackpots are *inclusive* of 20 years interest. Thus, you would get that sum over 20 years - or else take the value in a single lump sum MINUS what would've been earned in interest.

Wagerworks actually declares this in their terms in conditions, because this is what their provider (IGT) does. On the other hand, with Joyland, their provider disburses the entire amount immediately - and thus the casino should also pay the entire amount immediately.

If the player takes the lump sum at any Wagerworks casino, there are no remaining monies because there is no interest earned.

This is exactly how lotteries in the US are paid - you can either take the entire sum over 20 years, or else you get a reduced sum which is the value without the interest.

[DiamondGeezer]

The difference is though that we expect the USA to still be around in 20 years.

What would happen if WW were to get taken over by an unrelated company say a conglomerate and it went bust? You would probably be no more than an unsecured creditor. Or are these JP funds ringfenced somehow?

It all seems quite chancy because if WW are using a rate of interest say 5% to discount their future payments to the winner and the interest rate over the next 20 years were to stay at 1% they could be in for a much bigger cost than they thought.

Hopefully this money is in a seperate fund that is managed and reviewed.

The players really need to consider the lump sum as the real JP which is fair enough if they are aware of that. I wonder how many players understand this though?

[spearmaster]

The difference is though that we expect the USA to still be around in 20 years.

LOL...

What would happen if WW were to get taken over by an unrelated company say a conglomerate and it went bust? You would probably be no more than an unsecured creditor. Or are these JP funds ringfenced somehow?

It all seems quite chancy because if WW are using a rate of interest say 5% to discount their future payments to the winner and the interest rate over the next 20 years were to stay at 1% they could be in for a much bigger cost than they thought.

Hopefully this money is in a seperate fund that is managed and reviewed.

The players really need to consider the lump sum as the real JP which is fair enough if they are aware of that. I wonder how many players understand this though?

Well, given that Wagerworks is owned by IGT, who provide probably 60% of the gaming machines in all US casinos, as well as significant numbers elsewhere in the world, I don't think that IGT is in any danger of failing any time soon

IGT, the wholly owned subsidiary of International Game Technology (NYSE: IGT), a publicly-traded corporation, is a world leader in the manufacturing of gaming machines and proprietary software for progressive gaming systems. The company operates a number of linked progressive MegaJackpots(TM) systems in jurisdictions where gaming is legal. All IGT MegaJackpots(TM) top awards are paid in annual installments upon verification, except MegaJackpots Instant Winners Jackpots(TM) and Rapid Riches MegaJackpots(TM) awards, which are paid in their entirety upon verification.

http://www.megajackpots.com/
https://www.igt.com/GamingGroup/Game....asp?pid=5.269

Note that this statement comes from the provider (IGT/Wagerworks), not the casino operator. I believe Microgaming states that the entire amount is paid in full (or at least used to), and I'm pretty sure Playtech has done so as well (or at least used to).