Stipulations on Playtech progressive win

[Casinomeister]

I’ve been spending quite a bit of time recently with what could be considered one of the most disappointing player experiences ever.

Remember that huge jackpot win last August at Joyland casino? http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/winners5.php

Sylvia P. won $4,188,719.98 playing the Beach Life Jackpot at Joyland – a Playtech powered casino which is now part of the William Hill group. This “win” was publicized as one of the biggest jackpots ever paid out. The sad thing is she only received about half of the winnings.

When she signed up at Joyland, they had a policy of a max payout of 9k per month. Do the math – $4.2 million will take around 39 years to pay out. That’s one hell of a long time. Most state lotteries have payment plans for 20 years – but I’m pretty sure that the state of California will be around for the next 20 years – even 50 years. How do we know that the Internet will be around in 39 years, much less Joyland casino? Personally I think 39 years is absurd and indefensible. It boggles the mind to think anyone would consider this acceptable.

Note: progressive winnings are normally from a pooled account. In other words, each Playtech casino that participates in the progressive jackpots contributes to this fund. Thus you can have huge wins, and it doesn’t affect the specific casino because it isn’t 100% of their money to begin with. (please – any operators correct me if I am wrong on this)

Anyway, Joyland was in control of these funds and chose to pay the player 9K per month.

This is from the player:

The problem begins when I requested to collect my winnings, I was told that the only way was ( due to their terms and conditions ) they would pay me $9000.00 a month unless I wanted to collect a bigger amount I would need to play out my money. So if I wanted to collect $100 000.00 I needed to spend it first. After many long winded requests to have this in writing they said you need to decide what you want now or we will only be able to pay out as our terms and conditions. none withstanding the numerous calls at 3am – 5am my time.

At this time – according to the player, the VIP manager would only contact her using a hotmail address. stephane.joylandcasino@hotmail.com She was told that this was the only way to be contacted – either that or by phone.

Note: all correspondences are in French since the player is French Canadian.

As far as I know, she received nothing in writing from the casino detailing her payment plan. (hotmail email addresses don’t count IMO). But perhaps the casino has a copy of their official emails backed up on their server.

She states further:

Feeling like there was no way out of this I decided to go ahead and collect only $2,300, 000.00 plus bonus which was $61, 000.00vip points because I was not getting anywhere and I felt that the VIP manager was not honest because he was changing and using words one day and the next day there was always something else. So to collect most of my winnings and make sure I was getting it I did as per there request….

….I was forced to collect what they offered to a total sum of $2,300,000.00 I was so upset that on our last conversation I requested a witness and also recorded the whole conversation when all the sums and terms were discussed with them in order to finanlise the 2, 3 mill. I made the VIP talk and asked him how much was my total winnings how much I had lost as per their requests and my bonus points? He summarised it and he states at the end that he had erased my account balance, after which I tried to re log in and was unsuccessful. I guess they have blocked my account.

So her account is now closed.

The dilemma:
William Hill purchased Joyland a few months ago. The owners are no longer a part of the company as far as I know. I spoke with the CEO of William Hill online and he was as perplexed as I was, but he stated that William Hill considers that this player accepted the terms and conditions of 9k per month, had an offer to accept a lump sum payment, and took it. Even though William Hill purchased the casino, it purchased the assets and not the debt.

I understand that she made this agreement – but under what conditions or how this “agreement” was handled remains unclear.

I have been in touch with Playtech as well – I’m unsure what their stance is concerning the ex-operators of Joyland. One question that comes to mind is – what happened to the rest of the winnings? Were they played out, or were they confiscated as per the terms and conditions.

I am highly disappointed that there wasn’t some sort of follow up on this player who was made the poster child of progressive jackpot wins. Google Sylvia P. jackpot win and see what pops up:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...in&btnG=Search

Joyland Casino was a casino that had ethically challenged managers – (at least they did back when they were rogued in 2005). I can’t come up with a reason why she didn’t receive a lump sum - besides of course the terms and conditions...

This really kicks progressive wins in the stomach – it takes all the fun out of them. This was definitely a “joyless” experience which I hope never has a chance to repeat itself.

[Westland Bowl]

Though she *did* collect a pretty sum, it certainly is only half of what she is entitled to. I have been seeing more Terms and Conditions that do qualify their maximum cashout limits to account for jackpot wins, so that is a good sign. However, this doesn't help her right now. If these jackpots are indeed shared amongst the casinos participating in the same jackpots, then Joyless Casinos not only ripped off the player, they ripped off the other Playtech casinos of nearly $2 million that went into that jackpot. Where's their rage?

[Casinomeister]

... If these jackpots are indeed shared amongst the casinos participating in the same jackpots, then Joyless Casinos not only ripped off the player, they ripped off the other Playtech casinos of nearly $2 million that went into that jackpot. Where's their rage?

They probably don't know about it yet...

[refre]

It's clear that some casinos just can't be trusted with actually handing over progressive winnings to the players (at least in Playtechs case). The money should have been paid (by Playtech) directly to the winner. That said I'm sure that 99.99% of all Playtechs (rogue or not) would be able to do this the right way. Just think of all the free PR.
It must be every casino managers dream to have a big progressive winner.

Joyland - shame on you!

Freddy

[Pinababy69]

Note: progressive winnings are normally from a pooled account. In other words, each Playtech casino that participates in the progressive jackpots contributes to this fund. Thus you can have huge wins, and it doesn’t affect the specific casino because it isn’t 100% of their money to begin with. (please – any operators correct me if I am wrong on this)

what happened to the rest of the winnings? Were they played out, or were they confiscated as per the terms and conditions.

This really kicks progressive wins in the stomach – it takes all the fun out of them. This was definitely a “joyless” experience which I hope never has a chance to repeat itself.

Not to derail the thread Bryan...but this is EXACTLY why I have been harping on Rival for two months now, and trying to find out why they also do not pay out progressive wins IN FULL.

As you've stated, it isn't the casinos money, it is all the player's monies who have played that game and contributed to the jackpot. So, like you.....I'd like to know where the hell any of these casinos get off just keeping any part of this money for ANY length of time once it is won? I don't care whether it's Playtech, Rival or whoever. It is so beyond rogue, I don't even have a term for it.

I sure would like to know where the other 2 MILLION dollars is. What a bunch of crooks. I can feel a self-imposed vacation coming on.

[Simmo!]

A key factor is *who* has the other $2 million? Where has it gone? If it was casino contributions from a network it must either be a) with the ex-owners of Joyland, b) with the new owners, expressed as an asset on the acquired balance sheet, c) with Playtech, d) refunded back to the casinos or e) put back into the progressive for the next winner. It would be interesting to find out where it has gone. If it is a, b or c, then questions should be asked. If I was a contributing Playtech licencee, I would want to know the answer to this one too!

IMO the player is due the remainder irrespective of what was supposedly agreed, even if it is continued to be paid at $9k a month. It could have been agreed under duress for all we know.

Incidentally, it should be the software provider who pays the player from "networked" progressives IMO. Or at the very least they should stipulate in their licence that the casino is paid by the provider and is obligated to pay it out as they are paid.

[AussieDave]

Removing the semantics from this issue...

Even if the ex Joyland owners have pocketed the money, this player MUST be paid out her remaining winnings.

Whether it's Playtech, Will Hill or these two companies combined that settles this debt, the player needs to be paid, period.


Cheers
T

[AussieDave]

It is so beyond rogue, I don't even have a term for it.

I do...mis-appropriation of funds (verges of fraudulent).

It would not surprise me if the casino (Rival or otherwise) specifically uses this clause to use the outstanding jackpot winnings to gain interest in the short term money market or other similar investments.

This industry needs to start taking a good long look at itself. Otherwise the question wont be will this industry be outlawed, it will be when are the shutting it down!

Cheers
T

[Pinababy69]

I do...mis-appropriation of funds (verges of fraudulent).

It would not surprise me if the casino (Rival or otherwise) specifically uses this clause to use the outstanding jackpot winnings to gain interest in the short term money market or other similar investments.

This industry needs to start taking a good long look at itself. Otherwise the question wont be will this industry be outlawed, it will be when are the shutting it down!

Cheers
T

Precisely Trezz....but try getting an answer out of them as to WHERE this money is...ha! May as well try and catch butterflies with a basketball net.

[liquuid_fusion]

The money should have been paid (by Playtech) directly to the winner.

That would make a lot of sense actually. It wouldn't take much effort for the software provider to do this.

When I won a $117k jackpot a couple of years ago the now ex-Boss Media Pharaoh's Casino tried to pay me by monthly installment but I stood my ground, confirmed with Boss that the casino had been paid immediately by lump sum, and managed to get it all paid in one go.

Surely it must be against Playtechs terms or something for a casino to do as it wishes with the progressive jackpot money? I can't believe they would be allowed to get away with stealing half the money.