Random Number Generators - how its implemented

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

I find this really interesting. I hope its ok to post its here, its from another website.

Advice from a Software Engineer

First of all let me introduce myself. I'm new here and I would like to give you my humble opinion about online gambling on roulette (Sorry for my bad english). I'm graduated in Computer Science and System Engineer and in the last 8 years I've been developing software for several companies, including online casinos. As you already know there're several types of RNG. On the past almost all the online casinos were using Pseudo Random Number Generators (learn more in wikipedia). PRNG output numbers based on known seeds (normally a date/time) and it's major flaw is that over time and with historical data you can predict what's the next number that the RNG will output. Since this is a major flaw all the online casinos today moved away from PRNG to True Random Number Generators (if you're curious search Lava Rand in google ). TRNG outputs numbers that isn't correlated with each other, which means that historical data means nothing. a TRNG can output for instance the number 4 indefinitely.So said this I'm kind of risking my reputation with the information that I'll give you (I'll not tell names). Most of the available online casinos doesn't play fair (as you guess it). Online casinos are using Fixed True Random Number Generators, which means that if the casino is losing money they'll manipulate the draw number to not let you win. Most of the time you're not sensible enough to notice that because the casino cannot win all the time so win from time to time. What you must know is that online casinos stipulates a bar of gains (for month for instance) and never let the casino drop below that line. So when the casino is winning money it progressively let you win some hands/money but in the end if the casino is losing you'll eventually lose all your money, because they'll fix the output. Mind that what I'm saying is a very risk statement but I know what I'm talking about. Almost all online casinos doesn't play fair for roulette. So I'm sorry if I break your dream of getting rich gambling in online roulettes. I'm a gambler too and I'm very interested in Cryptography and RNG. So if you're the kind of person (like me) that loves to gamble I suggest that you do it in real casinos. Why ? Simple croupiers can be studied, you can learn how the croupier spin the ball, how many times the ball spin after outputing a number and you can adjust your game to guess the numbers.

I hope that you're clever enough to take my advice in consideration and don't let yourself be fooled by online casinos. I've participated in developing gambling software and I know what I'm talking about.

Thank you for the attention and time.

So call them rigged, weighted or whatever but there is definitely some built-in logic to control payouts.

Would be interested to hear feedback from our casino experts.

[uungy]

I find this really interesting. I hope its ok to post its here, its from another website.



So call them rigged, weighted or whatever but there is definitely some built-in logic to control payouts.

Would be interested to hear feedback from our casino experts.

Don't mean to bash here, but why do people always believe what they read

Just because some loser has decided to write some nonsense, with no name signed off, why should it be believed? I would firstky find it hard to believe someone who has a job in this field to let the cat out the bag, so that in the future he will no longer have a job.

Srely there are some unknown softwares, that they use those sytems. CM has a list of them, however softwares such as MG, clearly have a randomness check by third parties.

Also as CM has mentioned before, if its truly random, a casino has the advantage anyway, so why mess with the numbers, it makes no sense.

Thirdly, casinos have many games, he has only "explained" one game of the many available, so where is the case?

Probably some loser who has lost a few dollars on an online roulette, and is trying to "get back" at the online casinos.

[love2winalot]

Hiya: I proabely had/have more recored, "live" Roulette spins than anyone. They come from many different Casinos/On Line and here in Vegas. They are from many different types of RNG Software providers.

First off, If the RNG is going to cheat there are only 2 ways to do it.
1. See your betting pattern, and select a losing color/number before you spin. or
2. Have the ability to pick the winning #/color After you have made the bet, and after you hit the Spin Button.

The second method would make the game unbeatable at any time the Casino choose it to be so.
The first method would work on most players, But.........There are enough players who do what i do, AND WE WOULD SET THEM UP SO FAST, That Bankruptcy of online Casino's would skyrocket.

It does not do a Casino any good to have a player Win thousands of $, make them lose a thousand $, watch them win thousands of $, make them lose a thousand $, ect. The player is just getting farther and farther ahead.

The advantage of recording spins is establishing what happens in a given set of spins, and betting accordingly. If that Pattern were to suddenly change, and stay changed after 10's of thousands of sets, then he would be right.

Example: After 111 spins the following always happens.
A. At least 1 number will hit 6 or more times.
B. A min of 3 numbers, with and average of 6 numbers will hit 5 times.
C. A few numbers will not hit at all, or only hit 1 time.
D. Betting numbers based on how many times they had hit, using a 4 step flat bet or progression, yields a %66 Hit % on bets 1 thru 4.
and some other stuff.

This is Years of recorded data, and how i play Roulette in Vegas, and on the Internet. For me to start losing On-Line, this pattern if you will, would have to change completely, and stay changed, And if it did, I would know it.

So, Based on my data, I have to Disagree.

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

Thirdly, casinos have many games, he has only "explained" one game of the many available, so where is the case?

My impression was that he first explained how RNG works in online casinos in general. He mentioned roulette because it was posted in Roulette Chat thread.

some loser has decided to write some nonsense, with no name signed off

the web site has his name, his online name like we all do. Of course he would not sign this with his real name.

[GGW Laurie]

Its all interesting to read but for this gambling slot loving girl, i want to push that spin button and sit back and relax, while waiting for lady luck to show her ass up, i can assure you the last thing on my mind while playing online, is RNG patterns. ....................laurie

[funky_seagull]

I think that there is something not quite right with online roulette. I don't know what the truth about it is... but it is dodgy alright....

[SlotMonster]

Folks, play at casinos with Randomness Control and forget about this sh**t

[Rhyzz]

It's as simple as this...

You will never get a PC to recreate the randomness of a deck of cards. A PC has to think to perform an action, therefore nothing it does is ever truely random, HOWEVER, these casino's are as random as technically possible, IE) The operator has absolutely no control over who wins or loses, it's all a game of percentages. Remember that these Casino games have a house edge built into the rules and this is where a Casino makes money, so forget about the randomness stuff because it'll just baffle your head.

So long as a Casino willingly publishes it's payout percentages to prove they're within reason (anything above 95%) then I'm happy that they're running a legit operation.

[Rusty]

I think there is some misunderstanding as to what an RNG is.

There are pseudo RNG's that use computers CPU real time clock as the seed but eventually the sequence will repeat itself (hence pseudo)

Obviously this is of no use to a Casino as it can be exploited so they use hardware RNG's.
There are many different types of hardware RNG but basically they generate random numbers from physical processes.
Obviously these processes themselves need to be random but they could be based on atmospheric noise for example.
see www.random.org for some interesting reading.
There are many other low cost hardware solutions but truly random systems appear at the subatomic level such as thermal noise or radioactive decay.

Where the real misunderstanding is though is that this RNG needs to be manipulated in order to influence the results.
This is not necessary or even desirable though because if you wanted to weight the results you would still want to maintain as larger element of randomness as possible in order to disguise the weighting.

So as an example you may have an RNG that provides an equal chance of generating a number from 1 to 10 (but you want to weight the 1 so that is more unlikely)
All you need do is throw the result away when a 1 is generated and receive another random number.
It may be that a 1 is generated again and depending on how unlikely you wanted a 1 to be the result you could set the number of times to ignore this result and get another.

This is not the way Casinos would weight their games, it is far too clumsy and simplistic, I am just using it as an example of how the RNG can maintain its integrity and yet the result still be compromised.

I am not going to go into the multitude of ways that weighting can be and is used by Casinos but all 3 reel slots are weighted (this does not mean rigged) and this accepted practice.
For some reason I have yet to understand why people are not ready to accept that 5 reel slots can be and are also weighted.

The big distinction to make here is that a weighted slot can still be fair but a dynamically weighted slot is unfair.
The distinction being that the probability of outcome can be altered from game to game by the use of dynamic weighting.

As a further insight into RNG's, here is a link to iTech labs evaluation results for an Australian operators RNG.

http://www.backgammonmasters.com/ite...ion_230109.pdf

Hope that helps a little.

[winbig]

Online casinos are using Fixed True Random Number Generators, which means that if the casino is losing money they'll manipulate the draw number to not let you win

If this was the case, then ALL casinos using that RNG would be affected, not just one casino that decided to cheat. I seriously doubt that ANY casino operator has access to the RNG that is being used, whether they're RTG, MG, Rival, etc.