Betvoyager Casino - No House Edge

[manblue]

I have been doing a lot of research on the betvoyager casino, and I couldn't find anything bad about them.
In fact they seem to be the best casino out there.

-Min bet of 0.01 and max bet goes all the way to 1000
(I think betvoyager is the ONLY casino that lets you make 1 cent bets)

-Instant moneybookers payouts

-no house edge

-SHA-256 algorithm

Am I missing something?
My friend keeps telling me that it is possible for them to still manipulate the roulette numbers, because he thinks that with the random letters their software adds in the end they are still able to change the numbers in their favour...

 

[me_and_ed]

All M/G casino's allow penny bets.

 

[manblue]

All M/G casino's allow penny bets.

Does M/G stand for micro gaming?
Are you sure there are any other casinos that allow 1 cent betting on roulette?

 

[me_and_ed]

I dont know, your post doesn't specifically state roulette. As one of your first posts it sure sounds shillish though. Anyway our resident Betvoyager expert is Slotmonster.

 

[manblue]

I dont know, your post doesn't specifically state roulette. As one of your first posts it sure sounds shillish though. Anyway our resident Betvoyager expert is Slotmonster.

sorry, I noticed that. I should have specified that I was talking about roulette...

 

[SlotMonster]

BetVoyager

he thinks that with the random letters their software adds in the end they are still able to change the numbers in their favour...

Your friend isn't right, mate. their software adds random letters to the end of the string only to reinforce the protection of SHA-checksum and to make it more difficult to encrypt. But I really doubt comeone could some day do this. SHA-256 is absolutely irresistible. I'm playing here almost a year, and have made very nice profit playing their Roulette.

 

[SlotMonster]

And I almost forgot to add, that by shifting numbers on Roulette you also protect yourself from cheating...

 

[manblue]

And I almost forgot to add, that by shifting numbers on Roulette you also protect yourself from cheating...

when you play do you usually shift the numbers?
And if you don't mind me asking, how much money have you deposited and how much have you cashed out?

 

[Tengil]

Im still very suspicious about the whole group (Betcruise). Just look at the poker room (betraiser), they take no rake. How could they possibly be making anything else than a loss?

 

[SlotMonster]

Im still very suspicious about the whole group (Betcruise). Just look at the poker room (betraiser), they take no rake. How could they possibly be making anything else than a loss?

It's time-limited promotion, only to attract players. I think in the very near future they will start taking rake.

 

[Tengil]

It's time-limited promotion, only to attract players. I think in the very near future they will start taking rake.

Well they seemed to have failed. They dont seem to have any active cash players.

 

[SlotMonster]

Well they seemed to have failed. They dont seem to have any active cash players.

Don't be so pessimistic, they opened onle maybe 6 months ago.

 

[shoust]

Your friend isn't right, mate. their software adds random letters to the end of the string only to reinforce the protection of SHA-checksum and to make it more difficult to encrypt.

Don't you mean decrypt?

In theory it could be possible that the set of numbers after the current set of numbers could be adapted to a particular betting pattern, this would not change the checksum but if you are changing betting strategies randomly after every set of numbers, it could be possible to beat it everytime, if that was the scenario, but it probably isn't, so there .

 

[SlotMonster]

Don't you mean decrypt?

In theory it could be possible that the set of numbers after the current set of numbers could be adapted to a particular betting pattern, this would not change the checksum but if you are changing betting strategies randomly after every set of numbers, it could be possible to beat it everytime, if that was the scenario, but it probably isn't, so there .

Yes, I meant decrypt, sorry. English is not my native language.
As for betting strategy, shifting numbers wil also help. You may shift randonly every spin to receive completely random outcome.

 

[tombee]

This is the only casino I managed to loose a lot of the money I deposited in the last three months (except for some casino's where I tried slots with a bonus) playing BJ and Roulette. After doing lots of spins on the roulette table I decided that I do not trust it. I always play with a system, and in the beginning it worked a while, but after that no matter what I tried the numbers started to work against me in the most ridiculous ways just like if they where set to work against me/ my system. Lost a lot of money there, even though I play very carefully with small bets and do not take large risks. Really, I DO NOT trust it anymore.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

This is the only casino I managed to loose a lot of the money I deposited in the last three months (except for some casino's where I tried slots with a bonus) playing BJ and Roulette. After doing lots of spins on the roulette table I decided that I do not trust it. I always play with a system, and in the beginning it worked a while, but after that no matter what I tried the numbers started to work against me in the most ridiculous ways just like if they where set to work against me/ my system. Lost a lot of money there, even though I play very carefully with small bets and do not take large risks. Really, I DO NOT trust it anymore.

This will be the maths exposing the flaws in your system and not the casino software as such. It is like the oil in your engine. If you have a weak point it will find it and leak out.

 

[SlotMonster]

This is the only casino I managed to loose a lot of the money I deposited in the last three months (except for some casino's where I tried slots with a bonus) playing BJ and Roulette.

It's gambling, mate. Sometimes we lose, sometimes we win. I managed to make nice profit from their Roulette to date (normally I do not play BJ), but I also had downswings. And I used "RC" and shifting with both barrels

I always play with a system, and in the beginning it worked a while, but after that no matter what I tried the numbers started to work against me in the most ridiculous ways just like if they where set to work against me/ my system.

Repeat it ad nauseam: there is no system in the world which can beat Roulette, online or not. And if you are always usind the same betting system - surely the moment when your system fail will come. Remember: there is no system in the world which can beat Roulette. All systems just help you not to lose much money, or just help you to prolong your agony So in a long run you will always lose your money. And if you won - take money and run!

Lost a lot of money there, even though I play very carefully with small bets and do not take large risks.Really, I DO NOT trust it anymore.

It won't help. Small bets just smooth over the variance. In the long run you will lose your money.

 

[SlotMonster]

This is the age-old claim about online roulette, when players find their 'magic system' suddenly doesn't work

This quotation never better do for your situation

 

[tombee]

Never claimed it to be a magic system It's just to make it a little more interesting. I get so bored of flat betting in roulette.
But anyway, you will not see me back there again. I've seen rediculous things... but not in the first two or three sessions, but even more so in ALL sessions after that. The chances of losing 200 euro (two times in a row!!) in a no-zero roulette doing spins of 30 ct to maybe 1 or 2 dollar betting on even chances should be very small imho And just for an idea, I did not play for hours in a row in one session, maybe an hour max and the money was gone.
And I know systems should not work... I was one of many beginning my gambling career with the martingale on roulette. After winning 800 euro with that in the first session I lost way more after that untill I found out the whole system and all of it's variations were nonsense.

 

[SlotMonster]

Tombee, I'm not trying to persuade you to get back and play here again, I'm just trying to say, that there is no any rediculous things, if your system at first time allows you to win, and then you lose. Sooner or later. Period.
I have had many loosing streaks, playing their Roulette, but normally I play 3 or 4 hours. One time I lost more than 1000 euros with start bet in just 10 cents! Can you imagine how irritated I was? I was furious!!! But when I blew my steam off, I analysed my play, and didn't find anything strange. The secret was: I just used one system too long, and didn't use shifting. And that's why I started losing.
I also summon you to use shifting. USE SHIFTING! Because it's an additional feature to avoid possible casino cheating. Even if sequence was generated "against you", just by shifting numbers (it's won't affect SHA-checksum) you can ruin all attempts to cheat, because casino soft doesn't "know" which number you may choose to shift and on which value.
You may consider my post as tip to win: mix your systems while playing, randomly use shifting, and do not play every sequence to the end. That's why I earned more than 16.000 euros from them. And I was paid in full within one hour.
And there is my final words: they are reliable, they have Randomness Control, they cannot cheat, they will always pay to you your winnings quickly, and they deserve to be the safe place to play!

 

[tombee]

Thank you very much for your explanation! You could very well be right about many things and I must say the costumer service was good over there. Just very mad about all the money I lost at a casino where the odds should be equal

 

[SlotMonster]

...where the odds should be equal

in a long-long run...don't forget about all theese math things (mathematical expectation, variance and standard deviation)

 

[manblue]

Tombee, I'm not trying to persuade you to get back and play here again, I'm just trying to say, that there is no any rediculous things, if your system at first time allows you to win, and then you lose. Sooner or later. Period.
I have had many loosing streaks, playing their Roulette, but normally I play 3 or 4 hours. One time I lost more than 1000 euros with start bet in just 10 cents! Can you imagine how irritated I was? I was furious!!! But when I blew my steam off, I analysed my play, and didn't find anything strange. The secret was: I just used one system too long, and didn't use shifting. And that's why I started losing.
I also summon you to use shifting. USE SHIFTING! Because it's an additional feature to avoid possible casino cheating. Even if sequence was generated "against you", just by shifting numbers (it's won't affect SHA-checksum) you can ruin all attempts to cheat, because casino soft doesn't "know" which number you may choose to shift and on which value.
You may consider my post as tip to win: mix your systems while playing, randomly use shifting, and do not play every sequence to the end. That's why I earned more than 16.000 euros from them. And I was paid in full within one hour.
And there is my final words: they are reliable, they have Randomness Control, they cannot cheat, they will always pay to you your winnings quickly, and they deserve to be the safe place to play!

slotmonster, could you please post some more details on that big loss?
Where you shifting numbers when it happened?

 

[SlotMonster]

slotmonster, could you please post some more details on that big loss?
Where you shifting numbers when it happened?

I was betting on dozens, starting from 10 cents, doubling my bet, if required dozend didn't come. And then it happened: I received 1st dozen six times in a row (of course, I was betting on 2nd and 3rd ). I decided to finish this sequence as I thought it was too risky, and created new. And I again received 1st dozen four times in a row!!! And of course, I didn't start from 10 cents, I just continued increasing my bet from previous sequence. And I lost...and I was betting 2 dozens simultaneously, so my loss was doubled I know, this strategy was too srteaky, but I had a good bank, and start bets were very low. And I didn't use shifting. But now I use shifting at least 3 times on every 10 spins, and mix my systems. And I was able to win my money back just in 4 sessions (6,5 hours total)

The secret was: I just used one system too long, and didn't use shifting. And that's why I started losing.

manblue, reread my post again

 

[tombee]

That sort of things sound very familiar, unfortunately I've had twice 7 times the same dozen in a row (the one I did not bet on) in 40 spins once. And I also believe I have got a screenshot somewhere of the same number coming up many times (6,7,8.. don't remember) in 20 spins along with the same dozen in almost all these spins.

 

[SlotMonster]

That sort of things sound very familiar, unfortunately I've had twice 7 times the same dozen in a row (the one I did not bet on) in 40 spins once. And I also believe I have got a screenshot somewhere of the same number coming up many times (6,7,8.. don't remember) in 20 spins along with the same dozen in almost all these spins.

So that's why I use shifting, and mix systems

 

[Grey]

Really,they have a large limits of bets (up 1 eurocent to 1000 EU).
It allows to use a systems.

 

[SlotMonster]

Really,they have a large limits of bets (up 1 eurocent to 1000 EU).
It allows to use a systems.

Exactly! Nowhere around the Internet you cannot found so big Max/Min bet correlation - 100000:1
And yes, that's why it's possible to use systems (you should have a good bankroll though).

 

[Wisenheimer]

Looks like they are starting commission now. Either a) they build a critical mass or b) that whole 0% thing wasn't working out.

 

[SlotMonster]

Looks like they are starting commission now. Either a) they build a critical mass or b) that whole 0% thing wasn't working out.

They take commission only for your winnings, i.e deposit 50, make it up to 100, and you will be charged only for 50.
And they don't take commission an from games without House Edde.

P.S. I think they built 'critical mass'

 

[Wisenheimer]

I've been reading the posts. You seem to know everything about them. Do you play exclusively there?

 

[SlotMonster]

I've been reading the posts. You seem to know everything about them. Do you play exclusively there?

I used to play at many casinos, but now I play only at two of them: BetVoyager, and bet365, because I trust them and they always pay. And of course, I love their games
As for BetVoyager, it's software was bought from Russian company BetLine, which developed and launched the very first online-casino with Randomness Control (MD5, SHA-256) - Hibet.ru. But when gambling (and online too) became prohibited in Russia - Hibet was closed.
BetVoyager uses the same software as Hibet.ru
Must say, their games are absolutely unique, and many of them you won't find anywhere.

 

[Jasminebed]

I don't play at BetVoyager, but I've read this thread closely. Without a big bankroll, even with even odds, the casino will win.

Part of that is the nature of players...most of us will not quit 5% or 10% up.

I play slots mostly, so none of it is true for me. But you have a much better chance of losing less with a casino that has even odds.

You just lose more slowly. For those disciplined enough, with big enough bankrolls, you should break even.

My goal is not to break even, but to win. So even at a casino with zero edge, I expect to lose, maybe just not as much or as often.

BetVoyager has been doing this a long time, and still manages to be a profitable and reputable business.

The players that exploit such play (I hesitate to use the word "abuse") are outweighed by the gamblers overall IMO.

 

[Jufo]

I don't play at BetVoyager, but I've read this thread closely. Without a big bankroll, even with even odds, the casino will win.

I play slots mostly, so none of it is true for me. But you have a much better chance of losing less with a casino that has even odds.

You just lose more slowly. For those disciplined enough, with big enough bankrolls, you should break even.

My goal is not to break even, but to win. So even at a casino with zero edge, I expect to lose, maybe just not as much or as often.

BetVoyager has been doing this a long time, and still manages to be a profitable and reputable business.

No, even odds has nothing to do with the size of your bankroll. Of course, with a small bankroll, losing it is much more likely but it is counter-balanced by a chance to win big from a small deposit.

You said your goal "is not to break even, but to win". Well, zero house edge gives the absolutely best chances for that if you don't take into account bonuses. To put it another way: if you play reguraly at a certain casino which has positive house edge games the chances that you are still ahead after one year of playing might be 10% or even less than 1%. With zero house edge the chances of being ahead are 50% independent of how much you play. That's a huge difference long-term wise. Any player who is recreational gambler not playing in order to "abuse" bonuses should always play zero house edge games. After all the house edge is the only thing casinos make profit from.

 

[NewOrleans]

Your friend is just paranoid,there is no reason for them to rig games,the little they would make off rigging the game would not compare to the amount they would lose if they were ever exposed as having cheating software,just look at all the rogues that got accused here of having cheating software,they just vanished and had to change their names and they are still having trouble.
The only thing bad about them(Betvoyager) is they do not process check withdrawals or offer comps(I think) which is the only reason I do not play there...I play at betfair but would rather play at betvoyager casino,betfair poker and their other games pown* betvoyager right now,also I don't think wire transfers are possible either for my country(canada).However I don't think there is a casino that is better than betvoyager at the moment for zero house edge games,in fact there only exists 2 websites out of thousands that offer the zero house edge feature,and the limits are like 1-1000 for zero House roulette at betvoyager o_O; The martingale comes to mind right now ,also keep in mind online casinos don't just make money off your deposits but also cross promotion,poker rake,financial spread betting commission,sports book commission etc etc etc...
It is not likely that the zero house edge section will make them go broke.

Your friend is just paranoid,there is no reason for them to rig games,the little they would make off rigging the game would not compare to the amount they would lose if they were ever exposed as having cheating software,just look at all the rogues that got accused here of having cheating software,they just vanished and had to change their names and they are still having trouble.

(taking off on my plane into casino land again,off topic a little wont be offended if you stop reading right here)

The other thing people do not understand is that playing without a house edge doesn't mean you will always break even,because the casinos have more money than you do he he!This is their "advantage" and they know a 100$ bankroll won't go far if luck doesn't prevail or if you keep playing after you win all the time
Take zero blackjack which has a little bit more variance for example,the 50/50 comes from suited blackjack and 5 card charlies,the suited blackjack gives the player like a 0.05% edge or something but if it never comes you didn't really get that advantage did you...You will more than likely have to invest 5$ more than the 3$ you get from the five card charlies or suited blackjacks and will always have a house edge until the day comes where you get the suited blackjack and charlie streaks.The 50/50 is based on millions of hands he he!Variance is key to the casino profits,they hope you will go broke before your variance comes or that you will have a bad luck streak go on "tilt" mode and overbet your bankroll and lose,the casinos have no emotions that is another advantage they have he he!

50/50 casino war would be a nice one do they have it?It would be virtually the same as playing the double feature on video poker without having to win he he!And all a person has to do to emulate the double after you win aspect just keep doubling your bet after winning.... he he!(he he is my trademark by the way)

*Pown-By perfectly blending pawn and own together gamers have crafted the word pown,it saves debating over saying I owned you or I pawned you.

 

[Vegasbum]

Because they tax your winnings on the 0% house edge games at 10%...that means the games are 90%...not 100%. Probably works out the same as every other casino when the odds are calculated

 

[Jufo]

Because they tax your winnings on the 0% house edge games at 10%...that means the games are 90%...not 100%. Probably works out the same as every other casino when the odds are calculated

Now that's a bummer. I thought the tax applied only to non-rake poker but it seems to affect zero house edge casino games as well. I guess offering a wide range of zero house edge games was too good to last

 

[NewOrleans]

What do you mean by they tax your winnings??They take 10% of your withdrawals?Does this only apply to US citizens?

 

[Vegasbum]

What do you mean by they tax your winnings??They take 10% of your withdrawals?Does this only apply to US citizens?

It applies to everyone. Here is how they word it:

Fees for deposits and withdrawals

When players add funds to their gaming accounts, BetCruise covers any commissions charged by the payment system.

During a withdrawal of funds from the gambling portal to third-party payments systems, a 10% house fee will be taken from the player's net winnings. There is no house fee on winnings from casino games that do not offer equal odds. Players can gamble for a long time on equal odds casino games and rake free poker, or make sports bets without any house fee. The house fee will only be charged on a withdrawal of net winnings.

During a withdrawal of funds, first the sum of the deposit is returned, and then the winnings, from which a house fee will be taken.

Example: a player makes a 100 deposit, wins 50 and then requests a withdrawal of 120. Under this scenario, the net winnings exceed the deposit by 20, i.e. a 10% house fee equals 2.

 

[Jufo]

Betvoyager 10% Tax

Actually the 10% tax seems be even worse than I thought. Today I tested regural non-zero house edge games, deposited 180 and withdrew 56 in the end so I lost 124 on non-zero house edge games. And I was taxed full 10% of my 56 withdrawal. That can't be right...

 

[NewOrleans]

It applies to everyone. Here is how they word it:

Fees for deposits and withdrawals

When players add funds to their gaming accounts, BetCruise covers any commissions charged by the payment system.

During a withdrawal of funds from the gambling portal to third-party

From the GAMBLING PORTAL ??? Oh my god...This ain't tax it's a damn commission to their partners sneaker bastads

 

[Rusty]

Actually the 10% tax seems be even worse than I thought. Today I tested regural non-zero house edge games, deposited 180 and withdrew 56 in the end so I lost 124 on non-zero house edge games. And I was taxed full 10% of my 56 withdrawal. That can't be right...

Obviously looking at the T&C's posted it is not right.
Let us know how you get on with your complaint.

 

[SlotMonster]

Actually the 10% tax seems be even worse than I thought. Today I tested regural non-zero house edge games, deposited 180 and withdrew 56 in the end so I lost 124 on non-zero house edge games. And I was taxed full 10% of my 56 withdrawal. That can't be right...

Just file a complaint, or send them an email thhrough internam email system, or contact Support in chat.

 

[Jufo]

Just file a complaint, or send them an email thhrough internam email system, or contact Support in chat.

Yep I contacted them and they already removed the commissions that were charged in error.

 

[SlotMonster]

What I also like in BetVoyager is their Support.
If you send them an email - usually you will receive reply in less than 30 minutes.
And if you have found a bug - you will receive a bonus for it

 

[Jufo]

What I also like in BetVoyager is their Support.
If you send them an email - usually you will receive reply in less than 30 minutes.
And if you have found a bug - you will receive a bonus for it

Well let's see if they give me any bonuses, probably not. Also my withdrawal to Moneybookers wasn't processed in 24 hrs so it is far from instant anymore.

After doing some more experiments on non zero house edge games it seems that the 10% tax is applied to winnings in those games too. At least this is how it works on my account and that's just not right.

 

[Wisenheimer]

Did they ever pay you right?

 

[SlotMonster]

Well let's see if they give me any bonuses, probably not. Also my withdrawal to Moneybookers wasn't processed in 24 hrs so it is far from instant anymore.

After doing some more experiments on non zero house edge games it seems that the 10% tax is applied to winnings in those games too. At least this is how it works on my account and that's just not right.

Sorry to hear this, Jufo. I haven't played at BetVoyager for a while, so I didn't experience these problems as you have. All I can say (again) is to contact Support and raise an issue. I will test it from my side, and if any problems will be found - I will contact them.
As for slow pay, honeslty, I don't know what to say. But I always send them an email (internal) asking to approve and proceed my w/d, and it helps (I hope)

Did they ever pay you right?

They always pay.

 

[SlotMonster]

Well let's see if they give me any bonuses, probably not. Also my withdrawal to Moneybookers wasn't processed in 24 hrs so it is far from instant anymore.

After doing some more experiments on non zero house edge games it seems that the 10% tax is applied to winnings in those games too. At least this is how it works on my account and that's just not right.

Sorry to hear this, Jufo. I haven't played at BetVoyager for a while, so I didn't experience these problems as you have. All I can say (again) is to contact Support and raise an issue. I will test it from my side, and if any problems will be found - I will contact them.
As for slow pay, honeslty, I don't know what to say. But I always send them an email (internal) asking to approve and proceed my w/d, and it helps (I hope)

Did they ever pay you right?

They always pay.

 

[NoUTurn]

Do they offer any sign up bonus? I would like to try out the casino and was looking around through google in order to find more info. So far i didnt really find any negative comments.