MG are you taking the ****?

[AussieDave]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I got the feeling last year that Munchkins had been changed to cut down on bonus rounds.

I get the same feeling & I'm sure others do too with a variety of MG games.

The casinos who feed us the same canned BS responses when we're all on the perpetual losing streak of spiralling bad luck, ironically call foul when we as customers challenge the validity of their games.

At land based casinos such as in Australia and other parts of the world Government gaming commissions make sure these games are legit and not open to manipulation.

Can we really take eCogra's word that MG games are kosher. No! Not even eCogra will unequivocally stand behind any of their SEALED casinos.

In the fine print eCogra states "it cannot offer 100% assurance that the operation of any games at any given site is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any Internet gaming site bearing the eCOGRA Safe and Fair seal."

The problem as I see it we've all been led to believe that MG are a stand up casino software provider and their games can not be tweaked or manipulated by a casino, maybe this is true that a casino can not tweak MG games.

But can anyone state with 100% conviction and backed with tangible proof that MGS themselves do not manipulate their games...

I've seen a lot of talk & semantics but am yet to see any concrete evidence & hard facts that proves neither MG casinos or MGS are unable to manipulate their casino games.

It would seem that with most new game updates the casino is having to go through a complete re-install. To me that seems like overkill or is just that the games have been tweaked again?

Have we all been conned by a really good marketing campaign? It's possible, it wouldn't be the first time.


Cheers
T

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

MY luck at MG has taken a sharp turn for the better this year, however this only licks the wounds of LAST year, where the second half was TERRIBLE.

I have changed the games I play, my former favourites have been ditched, and I am promoting other games to be my favourites, not necessarily the new ones.

Despite some bad sessions, I have done well from 4 hand Double Double Bonus Poker, and the new(ish) AWP games introduced a couple of years ago into the download lobby. Former good payers, such as Munchkins, are now consistenty poor, fewer bonus rounds, fewer retriggers, and fewer big payouts. I got the feeling last year that Munchkins had been changed to cut down on bonus rounds.

Changed?
So that means the game must be weighted because there were no changes in the reel layout or paytable.

Originally Posted by chuchu59

Rusty,

Members of the fairer sex seem to get dizzy when trying to figure out the logic in your post. Maybe it's the length maybe something else. So we know what to do when engaging in arguments with them lol.

Its definitely the length ChuChu

[cynthial]

Chu ,

[jas2587]

[suzy1975]

Originally Posted by chuchu59

Rusty,

Members of the fairer sex seem to get dizzy when trying to figure out the logic in your post. Maybe it's the length maybe something else. So we know what to do when engaging in arguments with them lol.

okay so here is one for the mathematicians amongst us, i deposited 50 at a new playtech casino and received a whopping 400% bonus(i know stupid) but it was mainly for my love of the lotto madness slot.....I play 60 pence spins all the way down to my final pound and on my very last 60 pence spin hit my first bonus and receive 4x7(oh no) but it retriggers and gives me a further 21 spins(woohoo) and when these spins finish i am back at 251.30 so i got back all of the losses plus £1.30 and then of course proceeded to lose it all with not another bonus.(mmmmmm) how many of us have been down to our last few credits and got a win or a bonus just to keep you in the game and also put up your overall payout percentage? This way the casino is covered but you can not withdraw.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by suzy1975

okay so here is one for the mathematicians amongst us, i deposited 50 at a new playtech casino and received a whopping 400% bonus(i know stupid) but it was mainly for my love of the lotto madness slot.....I play 60 pence spins all the way down to my final pound and on my very last 60 pence spin hit my first bonus and receive 4x7(oh no) but it retriggers and gives me a further 21 spins(woohoo) and when these spins finish i am back at 251.30 so i got back all of the losses plus £1.30 and then of course proceeded to lose it all with not another bonus.(mmmmmm) how many of us have been down to our last few credits and got a win or a bonus just to keep you in the game and also put up your overall payout percentage? This way the casino is covered but you can not withdraw.

Yes an astute observation.
The overall return of a game is not the only important factor when we are considering if the game is fair or unweighted.

I am sure others must have noticed that when taking a large bonus any good hits come early on and 99/100 they are followed by very poor returns, sometimes as low as around 50% for sustained periods.

The amount of times I have been slaughtered off a basic deposit only to finaly hit a win on my last couple of Dollars that takes me back to very near my intial deposit only to be followed by another run of nothing is, to be kind, an extraordinary coincidence.

Also especially with RTG I have found many times that when my balance was run down I suddenly hit lots of little wins keeping at about the same level, it all drives the return percentage up yet there was never any possibility of winning.

When you become aware these patterns have repeated many times over you begin to actively look for them and how many times are we surprised by a different outcome?
The longer we play the software the more our psychic abilities seem to increase, no?

[vinylweatherman]

Well, I have received a newsletter detailing the release of the 4 new games, Mega Moolah Summertime is shown to have a 88% to 89% payout, yet the base game exists, and has a 95% payout. If the claim that MGS do not "cheat" (by weighting), then this must have been achieved through reductions in paytables, or different symbol layouts on the reels. If Mega Moolah Summertime is an EXACT clone, except for the trigger chance for the jackpot wheel, then we would have proof for MG using weighted 5 reel video slots.

Incidentally, 5 Reel Drive, the base game for the previous Mega Moolah release WAS weighted in it's base form, as it was a very old, yet popular, game.

[skiny]

I've been saying for quite some time that the odds on these slot games do not remain constant. I always fair better when I can't withdraw. Bonus money is some how luckier than real money. Losing streaks are inevitable but winning streaks are not. Luck almost always seems to change after the payout percentage has been met.

I only play RTG and MG slots. I've come to the realization a long time ago that if I want to play I have to accept the fact that unless I hit a jackpot the software is designed to take back anything I win. Not by having the odds in the house's favor but by eventually changing them so that winning is simply impossible. To me, at some point all online slot games cease to be gambling and at that point you're just handing the money back.

The sad thing is that if these games were actually fair and honest my chances of winning would be exactly the same after spinning 10 thousand times as they are after my first spin. They would be just as good after winning a thousand dollars as they are after making my deposit and they would be as good when I'm playing with real money as they are when I'm playing with bonuses. They are not.

I've pretty much given up on RTG and headed back to MG but the reality is my chances are probably no better there. I figure I'll just lose to some different software for a change of pace.

[vinylweatherman]

Well, NO MGS casino can ever get away with pulling the stunt Heroes tried recently. If a player won loads playing a modified martingale at MGS blackjack, took no bonus, and was legit, they would have to pay up.

Any attempt by an MG casino to allege a player cheated with "pattern recognition software" would cause quite a stir, and at MGS HQ - who probably have deep pockets and clever lawyers, and said casino would not only be kicked out, but sued for defamation. Pity Galewind didn't set it's lawyers onto Heroes, since their standing their ground that the software was not really random (weak RNG) not only damages the reputation of the one provider, but opens a can of worms for the others.

Much of the discussion surrounding MG seems to be "patterns", and certainly it can look like there are patterns when playing, however, if these patterns exist, they can be beaten. A way to "prove" that MGS is "rigged" with patterns would be to crack them and consistently beat the casino. This would not require spreadsheets and statistical analysis, just a record of total deposits, total withdrawals, and total playthrough, that simply defies the odds for a random set of outcomes.

[Rusty]

It is possible that weighted software could be exploitable but very unlikely.
It is more likely to be able to exploit rigged software.
I don't think MG games are rigged in the true sense of the word (other than fruit machines) as I believe they retain a random element.
It seems to me a sliding scale of weighting is employed and if that slider is on 60% then no amount of knowledge of that fact will help you win.
It may enable you to maximize any wins though.