MG are you taking the ****?

[Rusty]

Mg gets worse and worse, maybe it is a joke?
It has taken me nearly 1000 spins in 3 different casinos to hit the free spins in the Osbornes and guess what?
2 Dogs in the whole 10 spins. 10Xbet.
My last 5 deposits at MG have all yielded below 70% payback.

Nothing has changed at MG?
That depends if you always thought they screwed their players doesn't it?

RTG and Cherry Red you are next, looking forward to listing my playstats with you over the last month or so.

As a matter of interest how as Osbornes played for others because I went nearly 300 spins without hitting the grab a prize bonus also

My New Years resolution is pretty obvious this Year but will I stick to it or continue to line the pockets of thieves?
Maybe I will surprise myself

 

[oyw7862]

Hi Rusty, you are right. But do you think complain is useful?
Just quit playing MG. and play sth else.

Before I quit playing MG, JUL, SEP and OCT. 3 Months, I lost 20K on Thunderstuck.

I did hundreds K of spins @ 1.35 - 2.25 and even did not get 5 rams 1 time.

I played 200K hands VP and got 1 RF.

In 3 months, I waged half million and never get my bank roll above 2K.

So the only defense of me is to quit playing MG.

Now I am a happy player in iNet.and X'mas, I will only play RTG.

 

[Rusty]

Good luck with RTG
I need to stop playing slots though with the returns I am getting, maybe I will go back to playing VP a much more sensible waste of time and money

 

[retlaw]

Good luck with RTG
I need to stop playing slots though with the returns I am getting, maybe I will go back to playing VP a much more sensible waste of time and money

MG Video Poker gives also bad returns since a couple of months.
I play it almost daily and I think I am going to take a break until MG gets back to normal

 

[imkellye]

cant resist..i have to reply to this thread...

I cannot believe that I am reading this. I just had this same conversation with some friends of mine that play at MG casinos and we are all in agreement. There has been some changes for sure..I know that you can play forever and never get into a bonus round or the free spins..I have also noticed in video poker you never hit a hand that is up in the top end of the payouts...best i can get is a four of a kind and those seem to come less also..
I was playing almost daily and i was wondering if it was my imagination and just trying to "blame" someone or something for my lousy luck..but I am now certain that things have tightened up substantially..I was thinking that because they are loosing players with all the "stuff" going on and that would make their player base less..less people playing would mean less revenue coming in and of course, less money being payed out..I have actually thought since the ruling past in congress a year or so ago I have seen the games pay much much less..could be my imagination..but I doubt it..

anyway..i just had to jump in here and voice my opinion..
take care all
Kellye

 

[chuchu59]

Good luck with RTG
I need to stop playing slots though with the returns I am getting, maybe I will go back to playing VP a much more sensible waste of time and money

Rusty,

Have you tried Playtech or Wagerlogic?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I played a bit of Blackjack, and the dealer just kept on getting 21 on many "bad" up cards. At the same time, I REPEATEDLY kept busting on 22 - odd really. I would hit a load of low cards to about 14 or so, then hit a bust card that took me to 22.

I don't think I should hit 22 that often, why not 24 or 25 - should be equally likely. Why 21 for the dealer, and not 19, 22, or 23.

Also, a very large proportion of PUSH results on my stands on 19 and 20.

I made a brief note from the session.

21 (Dealer - 7.15%) (Me 4.55%)
20 (Dealer - 17.5%) (Me 16.25%)
BUST (Dealer - 21.7%) - now this IS odd, since the dealer MUST HIT hands such as hard 16 or less, whereas I can stand and hope for the dealer to bust).

This looks like one of those long "streak" events, with a long series of hands all following this pattern.

3 Card Poker was just as bad, I was rarely getting so much as Q,6,4 - or more than low pairs - the dealer was constantly getting K and A high, pairs, flushes and straights. The dealer also seems to get more of the 3OK and straight flush hands than the player - but surely these should be equally distributed. Again - streak behaviour, not "flat" random outcomes.

The RTP of the SLOTS far exceeded the RTP of the above games, which supposedly have a much lower house edge.

In VP - many of my "wins" turn out to be a "push", with 2 pair seeming NEVER to produce a full house. This is very unlike how it used to be, with plenty of 4OK turning up, even though higher hands were equally rare then as now. Again, this seems to show games sitting in a rut, good or bad, rather than producing an even distribution of random results.
Hit a game that is "on streak", and the wins fly in, and seems equally unreal, but in a nice way. With SO MANY new games having been released though, it is much harder now to find the few that are paying well.

The overwhelming number of players reporting that things have changed for the worse seems to make it more likely that indeed something HAS been changed, rather than that 1000 players have suddenly fallen victim to an affliction of the mind.

 

[Alexishot69]

thanks

Mg gets worse and worse, maybe it is a joke?
It has taken me nearly 1000 spins in 3 different casinos to hit the free spins in the Osbornes and guess what?
2 Dogs in the whole 10 spins. 10Xbet.
My last 5 deposits at MG have all yielded below 70% payback.

Nothing has changed at MG?
That depends if you always thought they screwed their players doesn't it?

RTG and Cherry Red you are next, looking forward to listing my playstats with you over the last month or so.

As a matter of interest how as Osbornes played for others because I went nearly 300 spins without hitting the grab a prize bonus also

My New Years resolution is pretty obvious this Year but will I stick to it or continue to line the pockets of thieves?
Maybe I will surprise myself

an excellent post rusty and reiterates what i have been saying for weeks..MG is way different..but very soon a few people will come aong and tell you howmuch they were paid out..and you can gurantee that..you will also find no support for this thread from anyone nr the top of CM . but ahh at least us and many others can see whats going on and ive taken my first stance and closed my acct cos like you i know im throwing money away with little chance of a payout..anyhow ill crawl back into my hole and keep an eye on this thread but i expect as i said the MGlvers along telling you how brilliant it is <haha>

 

[catrina m]

I have been quietly playing poker at stars and watching since MG kicked Americans out of the progressives and stopped new players from joining.

The fleecing of America, several people besides myself predicted this. You couldn't put a gun to my head and make me deposit right now, lol.

 

[Rusty]

LOL it just gets better and better.
Summertime 3 deposits nearly 700 spins ZERO features and about 55%
That is on top of the 900+ spins it took me to hit the Osbornes and win nothing.

But hey...nothings changed

 

[yameater]

Yes, I'm convinced also

Let me just say that when people used to moan and complain about payouts, I thought it was silly, as that is the nature of gambling: especially slots.
Back in Feb, March, and April this year I made around $7,000.00 at two of my favorite Mg casinos. I actually got a little nervous thinking something was wrong! Then I went to Atlantic City in May (lost my tushie) and came back looking forward to playing online again. That is when I noticed a change. I literally have not cashed out at a MG casino since April. I haven't made huge deposits, but what is fishy to me is the lack of playback, period. You can't make even $50.00 last twenty min. (and I'm a conservative better: $.50 to $.90 a spin).!
So to all those who are crying fowl about MG right now, I have filled buckets. I know where your'e coming from. I have almost stopped gambling all together since it is not much fun anymore. To be honest I hope the new administration overturns the gambling ban. Then I can play at Playtech casinos again.

 

[footdr]

MICROGAMING AND U.S. PLAYERS+CANT PLAY "MY SLOT" and.....

I have basically stopped playing at any Micro casinos after they stopped allowing U.S. players to play the Progressive Slots and now they won't even allow a U.S. player to play their new slot "my slot".

So why play somewhere that restricts the games you can play, stopped giving you VIP perks such as Holiday gifts, Birthday Bonuses and the like?

I basically play at two RTG casinos, thats it.

I plan to play decrease play to once a month!

p.s. payout at mini-vegas group has been the best for me although now nearly as good as it use to be

 

[hushda24]

Mg gets worse and worse, maybe it is a joke?
It has taken me nearly 1000 spins in 3 different casinos to hit the free spins in the Osbornes and guess what?
2 Dogs in the whole 10 spins. 10Xbet.
My last 5 deposits at MG have all yielded below 70% payback.

Nothing has changed at MG?
That depends if you always thought they screwed their players doesn't it?

RTG and Cherry Red you are next, looking forward to listing my playstats with you over the last month or so.

As a matter of interest how as Osbornes played for others because I went nearly 300 spins without hitting the grab a prize bonus also

My New Years resolution is pretty obvious this Year but will I stick to it or continue to line the pockets of thieves?
Maybe I will surprise myself

Well i said to myself i will never complain of losing,After cuting out my play at casinos to nearly zero in last month,I tryed osbournes,Well i have not checked the stats on this,But i am still yet to hit a free spin feature on it I am guessing here,Over 2000 spins easily,I now laugh when i get two dogs and the reels spin slowly and make that stupid noise I get the grab a gift and 3 knockers quite often,But they pay sod all anyway. I am now finished with it all. If everyone who moans about microgamming done the same,Then they might have to take notice ? Rant over and merry xmas to you all.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have basically stopped playing at any Micro casinos after they stopped allowing U.S. players to play the Progressive Slots and now they won't even allow a U.S. player to play their new slot "my slot".
So why play somewhere that restricts the games you can play, stopped giving you VIP perks such as Holiday gifts, Birthday Bonuses and the like?

I basically play at two RTG casinos, thats it.

I plan to play decrease play to once a month!

p.s. payout at mini-vegas group has been the best for me although now nearly as good as it use to be

This is the oddest move of all, WHY

It's simply "Summertime" - look in the registry and the key itself simply marks "MySlot" as a variant of "Summertime".

All the software for running it came with the Viper upgrade, so MGS have ACTUALLY SPENT MONEY in adding extra code whose ONLY purpose is to disable "My Slot" for US players. Unlike the progressives, there is no case for this other than any "case" for blocking US players from all the "clones", of which My Slot is just the latest.

MGS may, of course, be LYING about how My Slot works, and perhaps OUR PERSONALISATIONS actually get uploaded to MGS, and under that sneaky small print term become "the property of MGS" in the same way as those competitions for holidays operate with the tie breaker. This could get them slot designs by the back door, WE do the work, but THEY get the rights to the symbol sets, and MAY later use them for one of their own slots, or even make them generally available to ALL players through "My Slot".
Here lies the problem, if US players upload designs to MGS, then MGS become DIRECTLY INVOLVED as a company with so called "illegal online gambling", and could become a DIRECT target, as wel as being pursued simply as the software providor for "illegal casinos".

This would lend some logic to the decision.

No Progressives - easy, could prove hard or impossible to pay big win, PR Disaster follows.

No "My Slot" - could make them an accessory to the fact in any legal action against a casino operating "My Slot" where it can be shown to have offered a promotion or payment to a US player whose own My Slot design has been used to market further "illegal" online gambling.


Since MGS are probably going to finally pull the plug soon (1st December must have failed due to "technical difficulties"), WHY bother doing all this extra fiddling around in the mean time. It could very well leave non-US players with a "buggy" lobby next year as all these "temporary fixes" get left behind, and begin to create conflicts with future developments (don't laugh, It has happened before, although I got a nice dinner at a top London eatery from 32Red for "busting" MG as the culprit, rather than the players PCs and ISPs, which was all that could be dragged out of MGS at the time).

Perhaps Christmas and new year are simply too lucrative for a few MG casinos to overlook, so maybe loads of promotions for US players, funded by sweet FA for the rest of us, but it will then be OUR turn NEXT year. They will even save money, as there is no "Thanksgiving" over here, just Christmas (and Guy Fawkes night here in the UK).

 

[Shocked]

Umm

The MG casinos (well Ladbrokes and 32 Red) have been fairly good for me - I'm a low roller and I've cashed out (net) 540 from 3 withdrawals just from 32 Red and today made 100 from 10 which I'd left in my account. Some of the slots seem to change in how generous they are, but I never stick to one for long anyway.

Now, if we were talking about wagerworks...

 

[skiny]

I sent an email to Vegas Joker about not seeing a single free spin bonus out of my entire deposit and get this reply...

Please note that nobody else is actually complaining about free spins or
bonuses at our casino.

Then of course the apology for my disappoinment and then -

I would advise you to either change the games you play or simply stop
playing for a little while.

Best Regards,

Luigi

(I changed games about 5 times out of roughly 500 spins because most of my spins where hitting nothing.)

 

[Rusty]

The sad thing about this is it led to me revert back to RTG which I stopped playing because...well you guessed it.

I have come to accept that all software plays the same and is weighted but that should not necessarily mean the player gets screwed.

The big problem is that slot returns are altered without the players knowledge and it is not done through reel layout or paytable changes but through weighting.
I am certain there are times when I am playing games with payouts set to as low 35%
If the weighting is altered without the players knowledge then this constitutes a rigged game in my view because the player is deceived into playing a game they believe has 93%+ average return through every single spin and not a manufactured return over the course of a predefined period.

RTG, Playtech, MGS, Rival all use this system to control return and cashflow and if they did not I dare say Casinos would demand it.

The most subtle is MGS but since they have cut the returns of their slots it has become more noticeable.
The most blatant id Rival and how anyone can go near that software I have no idea then again I like RTG slots but they are only a step up from Rival.

Then we have the New kids on the block like wizzard gaming and guess what... yeah the slots are weighted.

I still hope One Day a Casino will be brave enough to develop its own software (3Dice?) and just use natural variance as a means to control returns (It can be done with the right design) but so far there is no incentive for them to do so.
Why would they when they can have a guaranteed income with controlled cash-flow and not have to worry about a Whale getting lucky and wiping out the profit for a Few Months.
Take X in then pay Y out.
If times are hard or slow lower the return to make up for it.

If online slots are your choice of drug then I'm afraid the best you can do is limit your deposits and low roll.
That or don't do drugs

 

[catrina m]

I just had one of the worst slot sessions I have ever experienced.

Villento took my deposit so fast It amazed me. I try to play normal spins. All the lines, minimum bet. In 3 minutes I was down to 7 lines just hoping to hit a feature and get back to normal. The whole deposit went without even a glimmer of hope.

Not entertaining. The software was only letting me see 1 out of every 3 spins because of freezing. ( not my comp, brand new with high speed DSL) and it wasn't downloading the whole list like MG loves to do to you.

I wrote that deposit off, no more MG for this girl.

I moved to Cherry Red. Get some entertainment!

No bonus's listed, only blackjack tourney signup where the bonus's usually are. I deposit without a bonus.

Same thing! In just a few minutes I am almost busted!

I go to achilles and spin 7 lines at minimum, maybe I can get lucky and hit a feature and play normally.

Several hundred spins at that and no feature. Busted out.

I guess no more RTG for this girl either.

Should have watched a movie and saved my 2 deposits.

I usually get a movies worth out of one deposit. 2 gone in the blink of an eye?

Who can afford that type of ( frustrating) enjoyment.

I am scared to deposit at 3 Dice, lost 22 straight deposits and posted it. Enzo gave me a nice comp but it ate that very fast also. I do not take small deposits and bet big, I try to make it last.

It doesn't anymore.

 

[Rusty]

I just had one of the worst slot sessions I have ever experienced.

Villento took my deposit so fast It amazed me. I try to play normal spins. All the lines, minimum bet. In 3 minutes I was down to 7 lines just hoping to hit a feature and get back to normal. The whole deposit went without even a glimmer of hope.

Not entertaining. The software was only letting me see 1 out of every 3 spins because of freezing. ( not my comp, brand new with high speed DSL) and it wasn't downloading the whole list like MG loves to do to you.

I wrote that deposit off, no more MG for this girl.

I moved to Cherry Red. Get some entertainment!

No bonus's listed, only blackjack tourney signup where the bonus's usually are. I deposit without a bonus.

Same thing! In just a few minutes I am almost busted!

I go to achilles and spin 7 lines at minimum, maybe I can get lucky and hit a feature and play normally.

Several hundred spins at that and no feature. Busted out.

I guess no more RTG for this girl either.

Should have watched a movie and saved my 2 deposits.

I usually get a movies worth out of one deposit. 2 gone in the blink of an eye?

Who can afford that type of ( frustrating) enjoyment.

I am scared to deposit at 3 Dice, lost 22 straight deposits and posted it. Enzo gave me a nice comp but it ate that very fast also. I do not take small deposits and bet big, I try to make it last.

It doesn't anymore.

That sucks but I think it is what many of us are experiencing currently.
All my recent deposits have vanished without a sign of any play let alone winning.
Everyone loses together it seems and yet we are told the slot returns are not altered.
I will believe in Santa again before I believe that nonsense.

 

[skiny]

Personally I'm starting to feel a little insulted by this constant statement that it's all just bad luck. It's an insult to my intelligence. I've had this debate more times than I can count. There's no way any casino is going to stricktly rely on player luck or bad luck to make money. Casinos know the odds on any game or they wouldn't host them.

Vegas Joker - As discussed earlier we cannot do anything else but empathize with you and express our regret for this bad luck streak, but at the same breath we assure you that all our games are randomly operated. No attempt
whatsoever is made to alter or manipulate the random nature of the
system. -

First of all I seriously doubt you regret taking my money.

Second of all everyone knows the RNG generates random numbers. I can even email asking not to be told the RNG generates random numbers and the casinos will always email me back and say "The system uses random numbers."

Third, you don't have to manipulate anything if the software is doing it for you.

Random does not mean fair. Randomly losing every single spin is still randomly losing.

Almost 500 spins wagering on every line and not a single bonus from deposit to bankrupt and all the casino does is blow you off with "Sorry 'bout your luck."

At Vegas Joker I guess the joke's on me.

 

[catrina m]

The joke is on all of us who deposit.

We do it because someone has to win.

Or do they?

Your bad luck may be my good luck, they all advertise 95% to 98% payouts

I have had luck here and there.

If I claim 65% they say my sample isn't large enough. I say I have gambled online 9 years and I'll not bet my lifes savings to prove it.

It's all up to the gambler. have a bad streak and take a break, win a little and feel good but in the end we are all losers and they have our money to prove it.

 

[skiny]

Well, I hit a jackpot last year and I think I'm still playing with their money.

They just seem to have taken all the entertainment value out of it.

I hardly even play anymore.

What bugs me is this story they keep trying to convince me of that the only reason I've been losing for most of the last year is because I have really bad luck. Luck is entirely dependent on odds.

If the odds are really good you don't need much luck. if the odds are even luck definitely helps. If the odds are terrible... You're probably gambling online.

 

[Rusty]

The joke is on all of us who deposit.

We do it because someone has to win.

Or do they?

Your bad luck may be my good luck, they all advertise 95% to 98% payouts

I have had luck here and there.

If I claim 65% they say my sample isn't large enough. I say I have gambled online 9 years and I'll not bet my lifes savings to prove it.

It's all up to the gambler. have a bad streak and take a break, win a little and feel good but in the end we are all losers and they have our money to prove it.

Nothing wrong in what you say but it is about how you win and lose.
Winning and losing streaks are all a natural part of gambling but will occur within expected parameters, that is, within an expected range of variations.

This range would be different for each slot and to be exact we would need to know the probability of outcome of every possible combination of every slot.

Fortunately we do not need to be this exact to know when something is outside of expected variation.

For example;
If you had a losing streak of 12 hands playing Blackjack you would consider that a horrible losing streak but even without the Maths a Blackjack player would instinctively know this is within the expected variation over Thousands of hands.
However they might be suspicious the way the games played out and look into the play history in more detail.
If they found that for example each time they had 20 the dealer drew 21 they might become more suspicious and check other losing streaks.
If they found this theme repeated itself then they would know this was statistically anomalous.
So even though losing and winning are part of gambling to simply accept this fact without question will leave you open to being cheated.

Even if you get overall expected return (which I certainly do not) that does not mean you should assume the game is fair.
What if you were guaranteed an exact 95% return on you deposits through a Year by a Casino?
You would I hope say thanks but no thanks because you know it would have to be rigged.

Remember everyone and anyone who reads this forum including representatives from the Casinos and Software companies I openly question have the right of reply.
If I am mistaken about something or have some stats wrong etc and they can show me how and why I will certainly listen.
I am not here to slag off any particular Casino or brand, they all get the same treatment and analysis, I am here to raise awareness because the more people become aware the more likely things will improve.

I personally believe and have plenty of evidence to support that online slots are weighted and that the return of slots is altered without the players knowledge.
This does not mean you can never win but it does mean you will certainly lose as and when the Casino wishes by lowering the return of their slots by a significant percentage through weighting.

 

[cynthial]

Hey Rusty, would you be kind enough to explain "weighting" to me. I am sure it is here somewhere but I know not where to look.

 

[catrina m]

I found this in a search cynthial.

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